Jesus Freaks...why do you believe?

[Snorri1234]

As far as Jesus is concerned, if he really existed, chances are he was some really bright and charismatic guy who was able to create a following like David Koresh, Jim Jones, Rael, Mahomet, to anme a few. History is full of these guys that thing they are the all might's son and/or messenger. Christianity was a cult that later became a religion due to the size of its following.

I think Jesus was a swell guy. A guy that basically says "guys, don't be dicks, okay?" has my approval.

[unriggable]

I think Jesus was a swell guy. A guy that basically says "guys, don't be dicks, okay?" has my approval.

Really? I'm more of a "Let's hate on everybody" type of person.

[unriggable]

well anyway, in reality C-14 dating is worthless on anything ove 5800 years old... the carbon is all gone by then.

Actually only half is gone. It can go for a few half-lives before being lost.

[Neoteny]

Guiscard you think too much

No such thing.

[CoffeeCream]

coffeecream, I will pray for you as you figure out if it's right for you. You sound like you've been thinking about this and searching for awhile. CrazyAnglican is right. It's nice to read your posts and see that you're humble enough to just be honest about your feelings.

Thank you. I appreciate your prayers. I've never felt that God was personally interested in what happened to me until I started reading the Bible for myself.

[Beastly]

What I find myself wondering about the Dinosaur theory, is that,

They never find all the bones of the dinosaur. They find whole wholly Mammoths. They don't find there teeth, the triceratops, was put together entirely wrong, so they made up it's front legs to make it possible for it to walk.

That's because they are millions of years old. Anything that old is unlikely to remain conviently in one piece. That's what I'm saying... How do they know they were so big?
Anyway; to twist your argument: if dinosaur and mammoth are essentially the same age (as stated in the bible) why are dinosaur skeletons broken up while mammoth ones remain in once piece?

Dino's and mammoths are from different ages.... they are not classified as the same timing. one is from Jurassic and mammoths are called something else. You being a expert should know that? And why are you stating things are in the bible when they are not? where is that in the bible?

They don't find what food they digested, but they know what they ate.

No, they inferred what they ate.
It's not certain, but the general food-group is most likely correct.

Plenty of Animals and insects have teeth that are used for things other than hunting... And they don't find their teeth. Or they find a tooth, and make up a whole head from it. And I agree that it is inferred just like all the rest of the information given to us is

but why didn't man die off when the dinosaurs did?

Because dinosaurs were quite significantly pre-humanity?
It would be quite a feat to die off long before you ever evolved...

Well excuse me for being taught that caveman existed in Jurassic time. And now your telling me, that we didn't evolve until the earth started life forms all over again? hmmm...

And how did monkey's hunt dino's...

That's what I want to know.
Just in case you didn't notice, that's the bible's interpretation, not evolutionists'. Never saw that in the bible EVER! where have you?

I question if people didn't just make the whole thing up to make a name for themselves?

So you're saying that hundreds of thousands of archaeologists are simultaneously lying, all to make a name for themselves?
God, you're worse than Xtra.

And your pathetic to resort to comparing me to someone, for having questions, based on ignorance. Thanks for being rude to me. I will not even consider what you say now as mature or truth, not only that but you have made a whole lot of statements that were lies about the bible, and you didn't even know that dino's and mammoths were from different ages? Although I tend to think they found a mammoth tusk imprint or fossil and made a skeleton out of it.

And Posting a big picture of a something that is questioned about being true doesn't make the question answered. That picture, all those bones. How many were actually found? Figure that one? They take one bone, and make up a whole animal? The Pterodactyl tell me? what bones were actually found? where are the pictures of these findings? I mean the site where they are found? The picture of the Whole dinosaur found. or pictures of exactly where the bone or fossil is compared to the others found?

I am not denying the existence of dino's just have some thoughts that give me doubt. I have a open mind.

[Neutrino]

That's what I'm saying... How do they know they were so big?

When what appears to be a thigh bone weighs 20 or 30 kilo's, you can be pretty sure the animal it came from was quite large.

Dino's and mammoths are from different ages.... they are not classified as the same timing. one is from Jurassic and mammoths are called something else. You being a expert should know that? And why are you stating things are in the bible when they are not? where is that in the bible?

The Bible states that God created all the animals, plants, universe, etc, within several days of eachother. As you may well know, several days is not enough of a seperation in time to cause the huge differences in whethering exhibited in Dinosaur and Mammoth bones.

Plenty of Animals and insects have teeth that are used for things other than hunting... And they don't find their teeth. Or they find a tooth, and make up a whole head from it. And I agree that it is inferred just like all the rest of the information given to us is

Such as...?
The laws of physics don't change often. Flat teeth will be superior at grinding plant matter and pointed ones will be better at shreading flesh until they do (or some significant change occurs in the density and composition of plants and animals)

Well excuse me for being taught that caveman existed in Jurassic time. And now your telling me, that we didn't evolve until the earth started life forms all over again? hmmm...

Whatever teacher taught you that should probably be terminated with extreme predjuce in an effort to better the gene pool (sarcasm, for those lacking humour)

Life did not "start again" after the T-K Boundary (aren't I smart?) it continued on in a new direction (the mammal direction) with whatever survived. Evolving all life again would have taken significantly more than the 65 odd million years since then.

Never saw that in the bible EVER! where have you?

If humanity and dinosaurs were created at roughly the same time, then they would have had to co-exist.

And your pathetic to resort to comparing me to someone, for having questions, based on ignorance. Thanks for being rude to me. I will not even consider what you say now as mature or truth, not only that but you have made a whole lot of statements that were lies about the bible, and you didn't even know that dino's and mammoths were from different ages? Although I tend to think they found a mammoth tusk imprint or fossil and made a skeleton out of it.

You claimed the entire archaelogical profession was founded on a lie that it's members continue to spread today! What did you expect!?
Those kind of statements are very reminiscent of Xtra.

And Posting a big picture of a something that is questioned about being true doesn't make the question answered. That picture, all those bones. How many were actually found? Figure that one? They take one bone, and make up a whole animal? The Pterodactyl tell me? what bones were actually found? where are the pictures of these findings? I mean the site where they are found? The picture of the Whole dinosaur found. or pictures of exactly where the bone or fossil is compared to the others found?

Technically Unriggable posted the picture. I merely stole it.

These are the things you should be looking up for yourself on "Teh Internets". I'm far too lazy to do these things (especially for potentially hundreds of species of dinosaur) just to win an internet debate.

I am not denying the existence of dino's just have some thoughts that give me doubt. I have a open mind.

Congratulations, you have progressed beyond the

Seriously, though. It's good of you for keeping an open mind. Unfortunately, there are quite a few people incapable of even that

[MR. Nate]

If you would like to give some sort of proof that God was created by the human mind, and not the other way around, please do so, other wise give some "Intelleegent" input

I can't prove it without a doubt, but the law of probabilty sure indicates that he was created by the human mind.

First off, every civilization/religion has it's own version of a god or multiple gods. The romans, greeks and vikings had multiple gods, each having a specific function. Why would their gods be any less real then your christian god?

The truth is that humans are very imaginative and also have a profound desire to explain everything around them, including their own existence. That's where god came from.

You could also say that behind ever myth there is a kernel of truth, so instead of a bunch of divergent cultures simultaneously making up the same idea, they all knew something originally, and the truth became diluted over time. That seems to be more probably with the evidence we have from the human race.

As far as Jesus is concerned, if he really existed, chances are he was some really bright and charismatic guy who was able to create a following like David Koresh, Jim Jones, Rael, Mahomet, to anme a few. History is full of these guys that thing they are the all might's son and/or messenger. Christianity was a cult that later became a religion due to the size of its following.

I'm going to guess in the liar/lunatic/Lord question, you're leaning toward lunatic?

[Snorri1234]

You could also say that behind ever myth there is a kernel of truth, so instead of a bunch of divergent cultures simultaneously making up the same idea, they all knew something originally, and the truth became diluted over time. That seems to be more probably with the evidence we have from the human race.

You could say that. But the problem is then still determining what that kernel of truth is.

I'm going to guess in the liar/lunatic/Lord question, you're leaning toward lunatic?

Who says he is wasn't, except for him?

Besides, I've seen more dangerous lunatics, Jebus was relatively harmless.

[comic boy]

Beastly
Why is it that every time somebody comments on what you say you accuse them of being rude or pathetic but never actually give an adequate response ?

[Backglass]

Not to mention the fact that we have mountains of bones that carbon date to the same time, scientifically proved without reasonable doubt that there was mass extinction....not a mass shrinkage.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/carbondating.html

read, it will tell you all you need to know about C-14 dating... In the first 2 sentences.

You are using some homemade site on anglefire.com as a reputable source? You are grasping at straws.

Perhaps I can show you some homemade sites on AOL that refute it?

That picture, all those bones. How many were actually found? Figure that one? They take one bone, and make up a whole animal? The Pterodactyl tell me? what bones were actually found? where are the pictures of these findings? I mean the site where they are found? The picture of the Whole dinosaur found. or pictures of exactly where the bone or fossil is compared to the others found?

Wow..I think you ARE Xtra! No proof without pictures huh? How do you know the evil scientists didn't doctor UP thos photos? Hmmm?

As for complete skeletons being found, you might check yesterdays news:

Spectacular Mummified Dinosaur Found in North Dakota

[viperbitex]

Jesus came to restore what was lost! Job is old testament.

I don't care what book he was in, God wanted to show off to Lucifer so he MURDERED Job's whole family, gave him the plague, and ruined his entire life!! Thats some pretty sadistic sh*t if you ask me.

And Jesus dying for our sins?? what the crap is that?? I just don't see the logic of it
God says; "ok, you humans are ass clowns and do bad stuff soooo I'm going to create and kill off this one dude, who is my son, so that you all can go to heaven."

And what about Peter? He was tortured and crucified upside down for fu**sake and he was FRIENDS with Jesus, where was God then? What about all the other martyrs? Where was God when they were being stones, burned, crucified, fed off to lions?

My point:
There is no one looking out for us. We are on our own and our lives are what we make them out to be.


"The essence of independence has been to think and act according to standards from within, not without. Inevitably anyone with an independent mind must become "one who resists or opposes authority or established conventions": a rebel. If enough people come to agree with, and follow, the Rebel, we now have a Devil. Until, of course, still more people agree. And then, finally, we have --- Greatness."
Aleister Crowley

[Guiscard]

Double post...

[Guiscard]

And Posting a big picture of a something that is questioned about being true doesn't make the question answered. That picture, all those bones. How many were actually found? Figure that one? They take one bone, and make up a whole animal? The Pterodactyl tell me? what bones were actually found? where are the pictures of these findings? I mean the site where they are found? The picture of the Whole dinosaur found. or pictures of exactly where the bone or fossil is compared to the others found?

I am not denying the existence of dino's just have some thoughts that give me doubt. I have a open mind.

You actually are insane. Have you ever thought to do even a modicum of research into the topic?

They don't just take one bone and guess at what the dinosaur is like! With the T Rex, for example, we have a 90% complete skeleton. Thats the same with a whole load of other dinosaur as well. Some 100%. We can see examples of dinosaurs fossilized in natural positions, like the picture below. You ask about the Pterosaur? Here you go:

[Neoteny]

And Posting a big picture of a something that is questioned about being true doesn't make the question answered. That picture, all those bones. How many were actually found? Figure that one? They take one bone, and make up a whole animal? The Pterodactyl tell me? what bones were actually found? where are the pictures of these findings? I mean the site where they are found? The picture of the Whole dinosaur found. or pictures of exactly where the bone or fossil is compared to the others found?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _kochi.jpg
http://www.solnhofen-natural-stone.com/ ... osaur-.jpg
Both of these found in Solnhofen.

An image search of Pterodactylus antiquus will bring up several pics for you.

The problem with pterosaur bones is that they are hollow and tended to crush easily. We are lucky we have the fossils we do. Solnhofen is pretty famous for its fossil deposits.

[Neoteny]

Damn you, Guiscard!!!

[Guiscard]

Damn you, Guiscard!!!

And I did it twice, too!

[mr. incrediball]

Damn you, Guiscard!!!

And I did it twice, too!

i've been wondering, cause MM does that a lot too, is that a glitch?

if it is, do they both count towards your post count?

[Guiscard]

Damn you, Guiscard!!!

And I did it twice, too!

i've been wondering, cause MM does that a lot too, is that a glitch?

if it is, do they both count towards your post count?

Yeh they count. Its just when the page fails to load properly or you press 'post' twice quickly by accident. Nothing to do with CC, just a internet issue.

[Snorri1234]

Edit: Damn Guiscard and his fast-posting skills.

[Neoteny]

Edit: Damn Guiscard and his fast-posting skills.

He's so fast... but I think I win because I had two pics and location information...

[MR. Nate]

Who says he is wasn't, except for him?

Besides, I've seen more dangerous lunatics, Jebus was relatively harmless.

Well, if we're counting, there's a couple billion who would count Him as Lord, but I won't appeal to the masses.

I don't care what book he was in, God wanted to show off to Lucifer so he MURDERED Job's whole family, gave him the plague, and ruined his entire life!! Thats some pretty sadistic sh*t if you ask me.

And Jesus dying for our sins?? what the crap is that?? I just don't see the logic of it
God says; "ok, you humans are ass clowns and do bad stuff soooo I'm going to create and kill off this one dude, who is my son, so that you all can go to heaven."

And what about Peter? He was tortured and crucified upside down for fu**sake and he was FRIENDS with Jesus, where was God then? What about all the other martyrs? Where was God when they were being stones, burned, crucified, fed off to lions?

My point:
There is no one looking out for us. We are on our own and our lives are what we make them out to be.

For Peter and Job: You're focusing on a temporal perspective. If you take the eternal perspective, you realize that the 70? 100? years we get here on earth are infinitesimally small compared to eternity. So Christ followers are willing to go through horrible things without complaint as long as 1. God is glorified & 2. They get to be a part of that glory because they know that in the long term, it's better.

As for Christ dying for our sins, look at this way. The penalty for sin is infinite, which means as finite beings, we cannot pay it. (Thus, hell continues for eternity punishing finite beings for an unpayable debt), Instead, the infinite Christ suffered & died, so that all sin could be covered.

[Snorri1234]

Who says he is wasn't, except for him?

Besides, I've seen more dangerous lunatics, Jebus was relatively harmless.

Well, if we're counting, there's a couple billion who would count Him as Lord, but I won't appeal to the masses.

Good idea.

For Peter and Job: You're focusing on a temporal perspective. If you take the eternal perspective, you realize that the 70? 100? years we get here on earth are infinitesimally small compared to eternity. So Christ followers are willing to go through horrible things without complaint as long as 1. God is glorified & 2. They get to be a part of that glory because they know that in the long term, it's better.

Just because we get eternity in afterlife doesn't make God less of a sadistic bastard. The OT-God was not all-loving.

As for Christ dying for our sins, look at this way. The penalty for sin is infinite, which means as finite beings, we cannot pay it. (Thus, hell continues for eternity punishing finite beings for an unpayable debt), Instead, the infinite Christ suffered & died, so that all sin could be covered.

So God basically went to earth to punish himself and take the penalty so that we can get into heaven?

[Napoleon Ier]

I do not believe a word of atonement doctrine as presented here. It is more an idea that we actually crucified Jesus through our actions, and continue to do so, having rejected him time and time again, by not listening to one's own innate morality or inventing one to mask what we know is truly right.

[Napoleon Ier]

The OT-God was not all-loving.

To make someone suffer can be a way make them better.