Guiscard wrote:MelonanadeMaster wrote: And just to clarify where I'm currently standing is this, all wars are a political one, as all wars are started by politicians. Thus a religous group, though it can provoke, inspire, and encourage a war, can not be the only
This is what I have a problem with. The crusades were a direct result of religion. They were inspired by, promoted by and essentially created by the Pope. Those that went out and got people involved were Priests. At what point did it stop being religious? Religion was always its core, even if not in the case of papal motivation (there is certainly a case for the extension of the peace of God among unattached young nobles and also a wish to control the church in the east, both political to an extent) then certainly in the motivations of both your average crusader and their leaders. Categorically. Perhaps the only example I can think of would be Philip on the Third Crusade but that's still very much debatable.
You're original statement seemed to imply that the Islamic wars of reconquest were religious, but the crusades political. Thats quite simply absurd, especially if all wars are political. I would go so so far as to argue that the crusades were
more religious in their motivation than the Islamic efforts to push them back.
And I'm not quite understanding the Muslim / Arab point. It certainly was Muslims going to war. Not just Arabs but Turks and Persians. Although there were Arabs who were, for example, Syrian Orthodox or Monophysite, they didn't really play any major part in warfare.
Do you deny that the soldiers were citizens of countries, ruled by political rulers? If not, than we agree on the issue.
My original statement could be interpreted to mean that, so I apologize for not properly wording myself, as I'm writing the replies with only snippets of my free time.
What I ment was that the crusades were not fought by 'Muslims', but by Arabs, Turks, Persians (earlier I was just generalizing by saying Arabs) Yes, the citizens of Persia, Turkey, and Arabia may have very well been Muslims, but it was political powers that sent them off, even if the roots and provacation were triggered by religous groups. For example, I am a Christian, if during an imaginary American religous war, I was drafted by the military itwould be improper to say they recruited a Christian, as apposed to saying they recruited an American. Although the former may be true it is more directly related in the certain instance that I am a citzen of America, than my religous stance, even if it is a religous war.
I apologize for the gramatical problems, my keyboard has turned the space button into a forward backspace, a problem I can't figure how to fix.[/img][/list][/code]