[Official] NBC Mafia Town Win MVP=trinicardinal

[MoB Deadly]

I don't think there's really a problem with being a little bit "on the fence" if it's true. I'm not always completely confident in my decisions and I don't have a problem showing that.

I am not completely confident either. I've said that I have had suspicions about you and chap. I have even said, if more experienced players think we have done enough damage to themselves to pursue another claim tonight then I would refrain from voting even though my gut tells me to put my vote on you. My reasons are:

1) As someone else said, there are too many people involved. This is a stupid metaphor but I think of it as a knotted shoe. Right now theres one big main knot that is messing everything up. If we can undo that one big knot, the rest of it should be easier.

2) I can make much more clearer cases based upon your alignment. If you flip scum I can do things like clear chapcrap. I know thats WIFOM, but you two have been butting heads SO much, I would be a little more confident following chap. Not saying that if you are town that chap is automatically scum either, as I have said multiple times I feel like it was an OMGUS debate for a leader of this game.

3) I think we have found scum. I think your posts have been too fluffy, I dislike how your biggest case was based upon that jokevote in another game, and I dislike how you dedicated that whole post to direct the town on what to do. And I do not know what type of relation you have to Betiko if any, but I am hoping that your claim may help to unfog.

Therefore, unvote vote Rodion

[betiko]

I find this ironic considering earlier you were criticizing Mob for not putting Rodion at L-1. Maybe not contradictory since your circumstances have changed somewhat but what I don't see is you having any problems with L-2 over L-1 before you addressed Mob. I think if anyone is getting worried about implications it is you right now.

As far as No Lynch. Other than thinking I had unvoted in that post, I view this as a high risk high reward situation. My instincts are still telling me to lynch Rodion, logic is telling me that it's a dangerous situation considering the cop and the doctor are out in the open. At the same time, it's going to come up sooner or later. There's too many people caught up in it (chap, betiko, jonty, me, arguably shield and you could make a case for Epitaph as well) at this point for it not to be addressed. I'm not convinced but if it doesn't happen today it's going to happen early tomorrow anyways.

@Rodion: well considering I've been fast posted twice by you...

it's quite simple; mob was trying to get more people involved on the rodion case and i remembered him to be one of the voters. safari's count was just above, and I then noticed he was actually not on the rodion voters list. I thought that he thought putting rodion on l-1 would make him look too scummy and he was trying to get people to do it, without stepping up himself. to be perfectly honnest, i first thought it was ok to put someone at l-1, dangerous but ok if the intention is really to make that person claim because I beleive you can get away with a l-2 without claiming if you really don't want to. It really looked like mob was encoraging anyone to bring rodion to a l-1, but that he didn't want to do the dirty job. I therefore tried to ask him some embarassing questions about his possible skimming. And I have to say he gave some quite good reasons not to reach a l-1 situation even if you are hoping for a player to claim that i didn't think of in the first place.
Those situations and examples didn't scare chapcrap though; and he really meant to bring rodion there (l-1) without waiting for his claim.

And yes chapcrap, do you really think that if me and rodion were scumbuddies we would make it that obvious? as i ve already said; if something from rodion would look really fishy to me, I would go for it. but for me the whole rodion/strike case is not relevant. from then on, it looks like there are some snowball effects on little silly things, and I do feel like you are making a huge case on him for stuff i don't agree with. and it seems like if we don't agree with your reasoning it's because we have something fishy going on with the player you acuse.
sorry i have to go i didn 't read the posts after this one will be back in an hour.

[jimfinn]

unvote

I don't want any quickhammer nonsense after a strong claim or anything, but I am fully prepared to revote if necessary.

[Rodion]

Clown with the Tear-Away Face, town bomb.

That said, I'll probably want either Strike or Chap to be the hammer (so unvote, let someone else L-1 and then hammer). I'll know for sure after I get to interrogate Jonty some more and possibly hear input from some quiet people (Shield, Leitz, Swifte come to mind).

[MoB Deadly]

This is my first encounter with a claimed Bomb. Why do you want them to hammer? does the hammer get bombed?

This is the article I found on the bomb, it only says things about getting night killed. Also a good chance there is a Vigi in the game it says:

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Bomb

[chapcrap]

Clown with the Tear-Away Face, town bomb.

That said, I'll probably want either Strike or Chap to be the hammer (so unvote, let someone else L-1 and then hammer). I'll know for sure after I get to interrogate Jonty some more and possibly hear input from some quiet people (Shield, Leitz, Swifte come to mind).

I'll hammer if you would like. I have nothing to lose. Although if your claim is true, it sucks that we are going to lose two town.

Can we get a vote count and a clarification on the deadline?

[chapcrap]

Clown with the Tear-Away Face, town bomb.

That said, I'll probably want either Strike or Chap to be the hammer (so unvote, let someone else L-1 and then hammer). I'll know for sure after I get to interrogate Jonty some more and possibly hear input from some quiet people (Shield, Leitz, Swifte come to mind).

I'll hammer if you would like. I have nothing to lose. Although if your claim is true, it sucks that we are going to lose two town.

Can we get a vote count and a clarification on the deadline?

EBWOP: MoB FASTPOSTED me.

Yeah, I think the hammer blows up with the lynch.

[dazza2008]

I don't know whether to believe that claim or not. I am always suspicious of a bomb claim. Are we better to hammer or investigate him tonight?

If we do hammer make sure it is not a power role just in case. I will hammer if you guys want me to. I am not a power role.

[Rodion]

does the hammer get bombed?

Check the variations line mentioning some mods interchange bomb and super saint. I explode whomever kills me, be it through a nightkill or lynch.

If we do hammer make sure it is not a power role just in case. I will hammer if you guys want me to. I am not a power role.

You aren't doing anything. Also, stop softclaiming. The worst thing that can happen is every VT volunteering to hammer, leaving our power roles exposed by process of elimination.

I want Strike or Chap (perhaps Jonty, but that depends on the end of our discussion) to hammer me and I'm leaning more towards Strike after the last couple of pages.

[strike wolf]

does the hammer get bombed?

Check the variations line mentioning some mods interchange bomb and super saint. I explode whomever kills me, be it through a nightkill or lynch.

If we do hammer make sure it is not a power role just in case. I will hammer if you guys want me to. I am not a power role.

You aren't doing anything. Also, stop softclaiming. The worst thing that can happen is every VT volunteering to hammer, leaving our power roles exposed by process of elimination.

I want Strike or Chap (perhaps Jonty, but that depends on the end of our discussion) to hammer me and I'm leaning more towards Strike after the last couple of pages.

Chap's already volunteered. The other option is you self-hammer and then there's zero chance of killing two townies in one move but I'm interested in seeing chap follow through with it.

[betiko]

wow, i really don't know what to think about this but.. this claim wether you are town or scum makes that the one who hammers gets killed during day or night time? pretty sweet role, or pretty sweet potential fakeclaim role cause anyone would think of it twice to go after you.

if i am right, mob put rodion at l-1 and then jim unvoted, so rodion is back at l-2

FOS mob; can you explain me what made you change your mind in the last couple of hours about not putting someone at l-1 before he claims??

also I do find rodion's claim suspicious, because if you are an experienced player and you are mafia, you are not going to fakeclaim vt, doc, cop ect, but something quite unlikely to be already in game. and what could be better than a bomb guy that explodes if you lynch him? this is really fucked up because there is no way someone will counterclaim such a role. the risk is really high. and if he really is a town bomb i wonder what he can pull out to make us beleive him.

on another note; yes, i d like to know what is going on with the prod on shield and leitz. also dazza is not very active on day 2 i think.

lol, fastposted 3 times and I see dazza replied

[betiko]

does the hammer get bombed?

Check the variations line mentioning some mods interchange bomb and super saint. I explode whomever kills me, be it through a nightkill or lynch.

If we do hammer make sure it is not a power role just in case. I will hammer if you guys want me to. I am not a power role.

You aren't doing anything. Also, stop softclaiming. The worst thing that can happen is every VT volunteering to hammer, leaving our power roles exposed by process of elimination.

I want Strike or Chap (perhaps Jonty, but that depends on the end of our discussion) to hammer me and I'm leaning more towards Strike after the last couple of pages.

Chap's already volunteered. The other option is you self-hammer and then there's zero chance of killing two townies in one move but I'm interested in seeing chap follow through with it.

loool pretty funny answer i have to say.

rodion's attitude reminds me of a poker player going all-in and bating to be paid; can't tell if it's in bluff mode or not though.

by saying this, is he 100% sure chap and strike are scum?? this is a pretty big stunt; why take such a risk if he is town? i don't think he has shown to be completely convinced that both strike and chap are mafia. so it's at least a small bluff, but he has something..
maybe he is just a vt fakeclaiming bomb, which would be a good move cause he becomes very scary for everyone anyway.

[Rodion]

Chap's already volunteered. The other option is you self-hammer and then there's zero chance of killing two townies in one move but I'm interested in seeing chap follow through with it.

It's decided. Strike will be hammering me after I finish my back-and-forth with Jonty.

maybe he is just a vt fakeclaiming bomb, which would be a good move cause he becomes very scary for everyone anyway.

Never lie as town. What if the VT fakeclaims bomb and there IS a bomb in the game? Bomb counterclaims, VT is mislynched and bomb is outed.

[strike wolf]

Chap's already volunteered. The other option is you self-hammer and then there's zero chance of killing two townies in one move but I'm interested in seeing chap follow through with it.

It's decided. Strike will be hammering me after I finish my back-and-forth with Jonty.

*Yawn* you should think of what you're suggesting Rodion. You're basically either forcing the person that you want to hammer to claim in order to get town to reconsider or you're forcing someone to hammer without a suggestion. If Chap wants to hammer I'm fine with it. I'm very interested in seeing if he's actually willing to risk it or if he's bluffing. I'm not so inclined to hammer anyone and you can spin this whatever way you want but unless you know for a fact that there's a role here that can force my vote there's a 0% chance that I'll be hammering you. If I get vigged for this sentiment I don't care. I really feel you've misplayed your role if we're going to hammer you and you're telling the truth and I think the only legitimate options are to go the safe route and hammer yourself or for the person who's already volunteered hammer you. For one thing you said it yourself that we shouldn't have a bunch of vanillas or other roles that have limited impact or negative impact to the game limiting the people that mafia has to choose from.

[betiko]

rodion why are you baiting them to hammer? if you are who you say you are, you know what kind of risk you are taking, nothing tells you for sure anyone of them is scum, but worse, you are baiting them both and you know how things have been going between each other during the entire day 2. the odds of both of them being scum are quite low and you know that. what are you trying to acheive, play who can piss the furthest?
i really don't like what all this is turning into.

fastposted

[chapcrap]

what are you trying to acheive, play who can piss the furthest?

Well, that's me.

[Rodion]

So, you care enough not to die by a bomb, but you don't care if you die by a vig?

I also don't see why you should be interested in checking whether Chap will hammer or not. It's not like I remember you ever voicing suspicions against Chap, so why voice them only now? And exactly when the other hammering option is you? This seems suspicious.

My will to force you to hammer is stronger than ever.

[strike wolf]

3. Chapcrap-for a while chap actually jumped Jimfinn mostly for what's happened on the last couple pages. I agree with most of what he has said regarding rodion and I still get the impression his case on trini was an earnest attempt at scum hunting but his posts the last couple pages have shown evidence of skimming and a couple other odd behaviors. He explained his reasoning well enough that I am not going to get into detail but I will keep an eye on him.

From last Friday.

How many times do I have to say it Rodion? There's no chance I am going to hammer you. zero, nil, none, zilch.

Yes I'm willing to take the chance that the vig is either non-existant or that he will decide to give me a chance to defend myself tomorrow or that I might be busdriven with the mafia's target whatever over hammering you and the chance that you're a bomb.

[betiko]

So, you care enough not to die by a bomb, but you don't care if you die by a vig?

I also don't see why you should be interested in checking whether Chap will hammer or not. It's not like I remember you ever voicing suspicions against Chap, so why voice them only now? And exactly when the other hammering option is you? This seems suspicious.

My will to force you to hammer is stronger than ever.

technically if you are both town, hammering you would kill 2 towns and strike getting killed by a vig just 1.
If he is scum, hammering you would make a 1-1 and not doing so 1 killed on the scum faction.
so yes, his reasonning stands if he's town. I don't like where this is going.

unvote, vote no lynch

fastposted

[betiko]

EBWOP: i meant his reasoning stands wether he's town or scum

[chapcrap]

No lynch is a bad idea. It's like strike said, this will just come back up tomorrow. Strike has said he won't hammer. You can't really make him, so there is no point in trying. If Rodion was truly town and he knows that he is about to be lynched, he should really just hammer himself.

However, I will hammer him if he won't do it himself. I am fine with it.

[Swifte]

Why exactly is it to our advantage to potentially detonate a townie bomb with what will most likely also be a townie (-2 townies with night coming = -3 townies)? Just hoping to get info about who absolutely wouldn't hammer, which could equally as well be a town power role or a mafia? Why do that, when we can investigate the bomb to verify and hopefully only lose 1 townie over night and either have a guaranteed target or at least a solid claim with some suspects? Why the eagerness to blow up (for lack of a better phrase ) the whole game right now?

With no deadline, we even could choose to believe the bomb claim for now and pick another case without risking two town at once. Are we really making the best play here?

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

jimfinn (1)- Leitz
Rodion (6)- strike, chap, shield, MeDeFe, jonty, Mob
chapcrap(1)- Rodion
No Lynch (1)- betiko

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

No deadline as yet, activity is very good.

Prodding shield and Leitz.

[dazza2008]

Why exactly is it to our advantage to potentially detonate a townie bomb with what will most likely also be a townie (-2 townies with night coming = -3 townies)? Just hoping to get info about who absolutely wouldn't hammer, which could equally as well be a town power role or a mafia? Why do that, when we can investigate the bomb to verify and hopefully only lose 1 townie over night and either have a guaranteed target or at least a solid claim with some suspects? Why the eagerness to blow up (for lack of a better phrase ) the whole game right now?

With no deadline, we even could choose to believe the bomb claim for now and pick another case without risking two town at once. Are we really making the best play here?

I think we are better to deal with this today. If we leave it to night for Rodion to be investigated and he is town the mafia could interfere with the investigation(if they have a framer or something). So I think it will be best to get this over with today or we will be in the same boat tomorrow.

also dazza is not very active on day 2 i think.

In what way have I not been active???

[trinicardinal]

Why exactly is it to our advantage to potentially detonate a townie bomb with what will most likely also be a townie (-2 townies with night coming = -3 townies)? Just hoping to get info about who absolutely wouldn't hammer, which could equally as well be a town power role or a mafia? Why do that, when we can investigate the bomb to verify and hopefully only lose 1 townie over night and either have a guaranteed target or at least a solid claim with some suspects? Why the eagerness to blow up (for lack of a better phrase ) the whole game right now?

With no deadline, we even could choose to believe the bomb claim for now and pick another case without risking two town at once. Are we really making the best play here?

I think we are better to deal with this today. If we leave it to night for Rodion to be investigated and he is town the mafia could interfere with the investigation(if they have a framer or something). So I think it will be best to get this over with today or we will be in the same boat tomorrow.

also dazza is not very active on day 2 i think.

In what way have I not been active???

There is another possibility that I have not seen - what if Rodion is Mafia Godfather and this is indeed a fake claim (safe or otherwise)... correct me if I'm wrong here but - investigation would show him as town and we would likely then accept his claim and which would then put him in a position where he is not going to get killed at night and not lynched during the day, giving mafia an extremely strong position (if he is indeed Godfather)

I'm not saying we definitely need to lynch immediately or at all but it is definitely something to think about and keep in mind.