Mor(m)ons

by **natty dread** on Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:02 am

Mormons are kitten murderers.

Do you support kitten murder?

by **BigBallinStalin** on Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:25 am

natty dread wrote:
Lootifer wrote:
natty dread wrote:Seriously, f*ck mormons.

http://www.thetwentyfirstfloor.com/?p=4329

Religion is a disease.

Fxt.

No, I stand by my statement. Religious extremism wouldn't have a base to stand on without religion.

When it comes to religion, the only difference between "extremist" and "moderate" is that the extremist actually believes in their religion seriously, while the moderate just picks out all the inconvenient parts and sort of believes the rest.

So... what's wrong with taking religion somewhat seriously but not really (i.e. being moderate)?

I don't see how being a moderate or liberal adherent of some religion causes fundamentalism, so I don't understand why you're hating on the moderates.

by **BigBallinStalin** on Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:32 am

Army of GOD wrote:oh god natty you're hilarious.

you fucking go on about bigoted people and shit like that and then you post "Seriously, f*ck Mormons" in the OP. The amount of hypocrisy is so amazing I am feeling physical pain.

Let's do some valid comparisons!!!!

Stalin was an atheist
Stalin killed many people because they weren't atheists
Therefore, all atheists are evil, rape children and drink the blood of newborn kittens.

Q.E.D.

Yeah, he really has it out for all Mormons and apparently anyone of any religion, and for poor reasons: "There's fundamentalists, but without religion, there wouldn't be fundamentalists; therefore, f*ck 'fundies' and 'moderates'!"

I agree that natty is being bigoted. And it's a dumb assumption, "without religion." Belief in the supernatural or having faith will probably always be around because in my opinion those types of ideas seem to emerge naturally as a religion. You can't really remove religion, or just assume it away. That's not reasonable.

by **PLAYER57832** on Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:00 am

natty dread wrote:
When it comes to religion, the only difference between "extremist" and "moderate" is that the extremist actually believes in their religion seriously, while the moderate just picks out all the inconvenient parts and sort of believes the rest.

I would argue you have this view because you are essentially antagonistic to the idea of religion. You are, in fact something of an extremist in your atheistic views.

To take atheism as an example, a moderate would be one who firmly believes there is no God, but who either just accepts that they cannot convince others of their view, sees no harm in others believing within certain bounds and/or sees the harm in forcing them their view as far worse than the harm from letting them believe. To quote the ACLU, "I may disagree with what you believe, but I will fight for your right to believe it". If you believe in some level of human choice, then you have to accept that religion is something people must come to willingly. Even aside from the correct/wrong bit, when you attack someone's ideas, it tends to put them on the immediate defensive. When the attack is to a strongly held view, many people simply retreat.. moving the ideas essentially "underground", where they tend to solidify and become more intense. A moderate believes strongly, but accepts that other, thinking people may have differing ideas that need to be respected, to a point if we are to live in a society... and, to a point, if the person is ever going to really and truly "come into the truth".

An extremist, to contrast, sees that there IS only one view that is really possible. Anyone who disagrees is basically just being an idiot. They may feel that they ened to work harder to convince the "other", or, in the most extreme cases may see enough harm in other's differing ideas that they actually feel they have to suppress them. They see the idea as superior to anything to do with the individual. They may feel that forcing people to comply with their ideas "physically" will lead to a true belief or they may just feel that following the rules is more important than any person's right to disagree-- that there is no such thing as a right to disagree.

Now, when I call you "something of an extremist", I don't put you into that extremely negative bunch, but simply say that you don't have a true fundamental respect for people who have religious views. You inherently think, at a very deep level, that people who accept religion are a bit stupid/naive and/or just blind.

by **BigBallinStalin** on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:38 am

Interesting points, PLAYER. I look forward to natty's response.

by **natty dread** on Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:08 pm

Nah I just don't like people hurting kittens.

by **Army of GOD** on Fri Jul 13, 2012 1:23 pm

my biggest problem with the "militant atheists" is that they think religion is a one way street and that it's only a source of evil. But, when a religious person does good, it's because "they're a good person naturally" and not because of religion.

anyway, natty's a troll PLAYER so there's no reason to respond to him

by **natty dread** on Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:43 pm

Army of GOD wrote:anyway, natty's a troll PLAYER so there's no reason to respond to him

Now now, don't be greedy AoG... there's enough of my posts to go for everyone. No need to hog them all.

Army of GOD wrote:my biggest problem with the "militant atheists" is that they think religion is a one way street and that it's only a source of evil. But, when a religious person does good, it's because "they're a good person naturally" and not because of religion.

I think you're confusing some concepts here. Of course individuals can do good things regardless of their beliefs. They can also do bad things regardless of their beliefs. However individuals can also do good or bad things because of their beliefs. Arguably, religious people do bad things more often because of their beliefs than atheists do.

Inb4 argument ad stalinum - stalin may have been atheist, but his lack of religion wasn't the reason behind his evil acts. His acts were not inspired nor motivated by atheism. Whereas, countless wars have been started because of religion.

Also, kittens.

by **Phatscotty** on Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:17 pm

Maugena wrote:
It has been reported by former members that the FLDS Church has excommunicated more than 400 teenage boys for offenses such as dating or listening to rock music

400 to-be men that won't be brainwashed anymore. Good for them.

The culture is quite wonderful and healthy actually. Mormons should embrace it

by **saxitoxin** on Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:22 pm

MUSLIMS DID 9/11

by **Army of GOD** on Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:23 pm

Don't be racist saxi. Everyone knows it was the Jews

by **saxitoxin** on Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:25 pm

fuckin InkL0sed

by **PLAYER57832** on Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:33 pm

natty dread wrote: Arguably, religious people do bad things more often because of their beliefs than atheists do.

It is absolutely arguable, for a couple of reasons.
The first is that acknowledged atheists have been few and far between in history. Even today, the numbers are far lower than those having religious ideas.

The second is that the definition of who is a religious person versus atheist is complicated. Many people who USE religion, particularly political leaders, etc may well claim and have all the trappings of religion, but not truly be following the religion.

by **PLAYER57832** on Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:34 pm

Army of GOD wrote: anyway, natty's a troll PLAYER so there's no reason to respond to him

nah.. natty has strong views on this, as do I. However, I generally find a reasoned response.. just not in agreement with my views.

by **BigBallinStalin** on Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:55 pm

natty dread wrote:
Army of GOD wrote:anyway, natty's a troll PLAYER so there's no reason to respond to him

Now now, don't be greedy AoG... there's enough of my posts to go for everyone. No need to hog them all.

Army of GOD wrote:my biggest problem with the "militant atheists" is that they think religion is a one way street and that it's only a source of evil. But, when a religious person does good, it's because "they're a good person naturally" and not because of religion.

I think you're confusing some concepts here. Of course individuals can do good things regardless of their beliefs. They can also do bad things regardless of their beliefs. However individuals can also do good or bad things because of their beliefs. Arguably, religious people do bad things more often because of their beliefs than atheists do.

Inb4 argument ad stalinum - stalin may have been atheist, but his lack of religion wasn't the reason behind his evil acts. His acts were not inspired nor motivated by atheism. Whereas, countless wars have been started because of religion.

Also, kittens.

To be clear, are you saying that religion is the cause of countless wars?

by **BigBallinStalin** on Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:10 pm

natty dread wrote:Nah I just don't like people hurting kittens.

Your initial position was "f*ck (all) Mormons," then you stated that you had something against 'moderates' and 'fundamentalists' because religion is bad, but now you've reverted to "I don't like kitten bullies," which all Mormons aren't.

So, what exactly is your position?

by **natty dread** on Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:12 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:So, what exactly is your position?

On top, sometimes from behind

by **Symmetry** on Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:22 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
natty dread wrote:
Army of GOD wrote:anyway, natty's a troll PLAYER so there's no reason to respond to him

Now now, don't be greedy AoG... there's enough of my posts to go for everyone. No need to hog them all.

Army of GOD wrote:my biggest problem with the "militant atheists" is that they think religion is a one way street and that it's only a source of evil. But, when a religious person does good, it's because "they're a good person naturally" and not because of religion.

I think you're confusing some concepts here. Of course individuals can do good things regardless of their beliefs. They can also do bad things regardless of their beliefs. However individuals can also do good or bad things because of their beliefs. Arguably, religious people do bad things more often because of their beliefs than atheists do.

Inb4 argument ad stalinum - stalin may have been atheist, but his lack of religion wasn't the reason behind his evil acts. His acts were not inspired nor motivated by atheism. Whereas, countless wars have been started because of religion.

Also, kittens.

To be clear, are you saying that religion is the cause of countless wars?

How many wars have been started because of religion, if they are, indeed, countable?

by **natty dread** on Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:31 am

WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE KITTENS

by **saxitoxin** on Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:48 am

Symmetry wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
natty dread wrote:
Army of GOD wrote:anyway, natty's a troll PLAYER so there's no reason to respond to him

Now now, don't be greedy AoG... there's enough of my posts to go for everyone. No need to hog them all.

Army of GOD wrote:my biggest problem with the "militant atheists" is that they think religion is a one way street and that it's only a source of evil. But, when a religious person does good, it's because "they're a good person naturally" and not because of religion.

I think you're confusing some concepts here. Of course individuals can do good things regardless of their beliefs. They can also do bad things regardless of their beliefs. However individuals can also do good or bad things because of their beliefs. Arguably, religious people do bad things more often because of their beliefs than atheists do.

Inb4 argument ad stalinum - stalin may have been atheist, but his lack of religion wasn't the reason behind his evil acts. His acts were not inspired nor motivated by atheism. Whereas, countless wars have been started because of religion.

Also, kittens.

To be clear, are you saying that religion is the cause of countless wars?

How many wars have been started because of religion, if they are, indeed, countable?

definitely one of the following ...
- WWI
- WWII
- Korean Conflict
- Malvinas Liberation Struggle
- Rwandan Civil War
- Russian Revolution
- American Civil War
- French Revolution
- Zulu Wars
- Napleonic Wars
- Vietnam Conflict
- War of the Triple Coalition
- THE CRUZADES

by **Phatscotty** on Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:57 am

The Crusades are the most overrated thing in history.

by **BigBallinStalin** on Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:15 am

natty dread wrote:WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE KITTENS

WE GOT YOU, MR BIGOT.

PUT DOWN THE KITTENS. COME OUT WITH YOUR HANDS UP. WE HAVE YOUR THREAD SURROUNDED. THERE IS NO ESCAPE, PLEASE MAKE YOUR TIME.

by **natty dread** on Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:04 am

Sorry, I can't do that, the opportunity cost is too high or something.

by **PLAYER57832** on Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:57 am

quote="natty dread"]
I think you're confusing some concepts here. Of course individuals can do good things regardless of their beliefs. They can also do bad things regardless of their beliefs. However individuals can also do good or bad things because of their beliefs. Arguably, religious people do bad things more often because of their beliefs than atheists do. ?[/quote]
But that is a disengenuous argument, not just for the reasons I gave above. In that context, atheists just won't refer to their religious beliefs, but they operate upon them.

Its similar to the concept that you cannot prove a negative. Atheists will not rally around the idea of "no God", BUT they will absolutely join in on conflicts against a particular religion or use other reasons to start wars, even if their major opposition is religion. In fact, as I noted above, many of those who claim to be using religion are, to those within the religion, not doing so.

Wars are caused by humanity, primarily by greed, but also by basic misunderstandings, fear and intolerance (which is really another aspect of fear in this context).