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warmonger1981 wrote:Sir Francis Bacon, a Mason, is believed to be the ghost writer for most of Shakespeare's writings.
jonesthecurl wrote:warmonger1981 wrote:Sir Francis Bacon, a Mason, is believed to be the ghost writer for most of Shakespeare's writings.
Or maybe the Earl of Oxford, as many believe.
betiko wrote:How can people be so self centered in their meaningless human existence to the point of thinking there is a superior existence caring and listening to them?
This is like being a protein inside a body and thinking that body gives a flying shit about you.
Get real people. If there is a god he doesn t give a flying shit about who you are and what you do. Take your own responsabilities towards right or wrong. Don t do things in the name of your god that doesn t exist, at least in the way you see him, your caring skydaddy.
DaGip wrote:
If Good was indeed the intention of a Dualistic God, then God would then not permit such evil to exist; but since evil and suffering do exist, then how can your God be Good? Perhaps God only pretends to be so.
DaGip wrote:God would then not permit such evil to exist
Dukasaur wrote:betiko wrote:How can people be so self centered in their meaningless human existence to the point of thinking there is a superior existence caring and listening to them?
This is like being a protein inside a body and thinking that body gives a flying shit about you.
Get real people. If there is a god he doesn t give a flying shit about who you are and what you do. Take your own responsabilities towards right or wrong. Don t do things in the name of your god that doesn t exist, at least in the way you see him, your caring skydaddy.
That's actually one of the weaker arguments against god. You're thinking in human terms. We have finite resources, so we can't spend a lot of time and effort worrying about trivialities like the fate of one single anonymous protein molecule in our body.
If we were a being with infinite time and infinite ability, however, we wouldn't face these constraints. If you had infinite memory and infinite computing power, you could in fact track an infinite number of variables, and paying attention to the fate of a single isolated protein molecule would be no more and no less pressing than looking after the fate of the Andromeda galaxy.
I read a book once which postulated that god is our distant descendants, who have mastered space and time, are able to extract infinite energy from the future re-collapse of the universe, and have resurrected us out of a whimsical sense of nostalgia.
betiko wrote:
Why would he give a shit?
DaGip wrote:Ray Rider wrote:I'm 24 and I've just been through 4 months of chemo + 1 month of radiation, the most recent side effect was an inability to eat solid food for 3 weeks; now it's 4:00 AM and I just left the bedside of my 10 month old niece who has spent over a month in the Pediatric Cardiac ICU after multiple heart surgeries. Obviously there's terrible pain, suffering, and evil in the world but that has never driven me to the belief that God is evil. I'm sorry that you feel the need to jump to that conclusion.
I am sorry to hear of yours and your niece's health problems, and my response is not meant to be insensitive or offensive, and since you are dualistic in your philosophy, I will respond in like.
Since your belief in God is that He/She is good and merciful (as such it seems since both you and your niece have gone through much suffering and survived), and that such belief is that God has created all things (God is all powerful, all knowing after all); then God, therefore, created the illnesses of which both your niece and yourself have suffered. To what ends? To enlighten you? To enlighten you for what?
If a dualistic God created the suffering and one of you had died from it, then what? Would you still think of it as a miracle? Perhaps it was just part of God's plan? What plan?!?
DaGip wrote:For every miracle that Cult members believe happens in the world, I will show you a crocodile ripping apart a baby gazelle. Your faith is your crutch, and I do not fault you for it, and neither do I wish you to discontinue your belief in such. I just cannot adopt a belief in a Good God that permits evil and disease and suffering to perforate the world.
DaGip wrote:If Good was indeed the intention of a Dualistic God, then God would then not permit such evil to exist; but since evil and suffering do exist, then how can your God be Good? Perhaps God only pretends to be so.
betiko wrote:If there is a god, which is yet to prove; what makes you think he gives a shit about you or your ludicrous way to understand him through flawed cults?
betiko wrote:Dukasaur wrote:betiko wrote:How can people be so self centered in their meaningless human existence to the point of thinking there is a superior existence caring and listening to them?
This is like being a protein inside a body and thinking that body gives a flying shit about you.
Get real people. If there is a god he doesn t give a flying shit about who you are and what you do. Take your own responsabilities towards right or wrong. Don t do things in the name of your god that doesn t exist, at least in the way you see him, your caring skydaddy.
That's actually one of the weaker arguments against god. You're thinking in human terms. We have finite resources, so we can't spend a lot of time and effort worrying about trivialities like the fate of one single anonymous protein molecule in our body.
If we were a being with infinite time and infinite ability, however, we wouldn't face these constraints. If you had infinite memory and infinite computing power, you could in fact track an infinite number of variables, and paying attention to the fate of a single isolated protein molecule would be no more and no less pressing than looking after the fate of the Andromeda galaxy.
I read a book once which postulated that god is our distant descendants, who have mastered space and time, are able to extract infinite energy from the future re-collapse of the universe, and have resurrected us out of a whimsical sense of nostalgia.
if he is the creator, he isn't part of this universe most likely. and he most likely created an infinite amount of universes working with different physics. Given the fate of most species on our planet and the fate of our planet, in case he did it it's a scrap paper he whipes his ass with. Your life is still as insignifican as it can be, just imagine how you 200 000 year old specie is insignificant. Why would he give a shit?
If there is a god, which is yet to prove; what makes you think he gives a shit about you or your ludicrous way to understand him through flawed cults?
Dukasaur wrote:betiko wrote:Dukasaur wrote:betiko wrote:How can people be so self centered in their meaningless human existence to the point of thinking there is a superior existence caring and listening to them?
This is like being a protein inside a body and thinking that body gives a flying shit about you.
Get real people. If there is a god he doesn t give a flying shit about who you are and what you do. Take your own responsabilities towards right or wrong. Don t do things in the name of your god that doesn t exist, at least in the way you see him, your caring skydaddy.
That's actually one of the weaker arguments against god. You're thinking in human terms. We have finite resources, so we can't spend a lot of time and effort worrying about trivialities like the fate of one single anonymous protein molecule in our body.
If we were a being with infinite time and infinite ability, however, we wouldn't face these constraints. If you had infinite memory and infinite computing power, you could in fact track an infinite number of variables, and paying attention to the fate of a single isolated protein molecule would be no more and no less pressing than looking after the fate of the Andromeda galaxy.
I read a book once which postulated that god is our distant descendants, who have mastered space and time, are able to extract infinite energy from the future re-collapse of the universe, and have resurrected us out of a whimsical sense of nostalgia.
if he is the creator, he isn't part of this universe most likely. and he most likely created an infinite amount of universes working with different physics. Given the fate of most species on our planet and the fate of our planet, in case he did it it's a scrap paper he whipes his ass with. Your life is still as insignifican as it can be, just imagine how you 200 000 year old specie is insignificant. Why would he give a shit?
If there is a god, which is yet to prove; what makes you think he gives a shit about you or your ludicrous way to understand him through flawed cults?
Oh, don't worry. I don't believe in a god. I was only pointing out that the specific argument in question ("why would he care about insignificant little creatures on an insignificant little planet?") isn't very strong.
Gillipig wrote:Dukasaur wrote:betiko wrote:Dukasaur wrote:betiko wrote:How can people be so self centered in their meaningless human existence to the point of thinking there is a superior existence caring and listening to them?
This is like being a protein inside a body and thinking that body gives a flying shit about you.
Get real people. If there is a god he doesn t give a flying shit about who you are and what you do. Take your own responsabilities towards right or wrong. Don t do things in the name of your god that doesn t exist, at least in the way you see him, your caring skydaddy.
That's actually one of the weaker arguments against god. You're thinking in human terms. We have finite resources, so we can't spend a lot of time and effort worrying about trivialities like the fate of one single anonymous protein molecule in our body.
If we were a being with infinite time and infinite ability, however, we wouldn't face these constraints. If you had infinite memory and infinite computing power, you could in fact track an infinite number of variables, and paying attention to the fate of a single isolated protein molecule would be no more and no less pressing than looking after the fate of the Andromeda galaxy.
I read a book once which postulated that god is our distant descendants, who have mastered space and time, are able to extract infinite energy from the future re-collapse of the universe, and have resurrected us out of a whimsical sense of nostalgia.
if he is the creator, he isn't part of this universe most likely. and he most likely created an infinite amount of universes working with different physics. Given the fate of most species on our planet and the fate of our planet, in case he did it it's a scrap paper he whipes his ass with. Your life is still as insignifican as it can be, just imagine how you 200 000 year old specie is insignificant. Why would he give a shit?
If there is a god, which is yet to prove; what makes you think he gives a shit about you or your ludicrous way to understand him through flawed cults?
Oh, don't worry. I don't believe in a god. I was only pointing out that the specific argument in question ("why would he care about insignificant little creatures on an insignificant little planet?") isn't very strong.
With other words he was trying to educate you Betiko, you just got homeschooled.
warmonger1981 wrote:For non believers...... What is the driving force for you to do good or act in a civil way? Where does your reasoning come from to act the way you do? If there is no God then its free game to do, act, or be anything you want. What is restricting people from mistreating others? Are morals God given or just a simple system of thought?
betiko wrote:
Do you think religious people are better persons than atheists/agnostics?
warmonger1981 wrote:For non believers...... What is the driving force for you to do good or act in a civil way? Where does your reasoning come from to act the way you do? If there is no God then its free game to do, act, or be anything you want. What is restricting people from mistreating others? Are morals God given or just a simple system of thought?
Ray Rider wrote:DaGip wrote:Ray Rider wrote:I'm 24 and I've just been through 4 months of chemo + 1 month of radiation, the most recent side effect was an inability to eat solid food for 3 weeks; now it's 4:00 AM and I just left the bedside of my 10 month old niece who has spent over a month in the Pediatric Cardiac ICU after multiple heart surgeries. Obviously there's terrible pain, suffering, and evil in the world but that has never driven me to the belief that God is evil. I'm sorry that you feel the need to jump to that conclusion.
I am sorry to hear of yours and your niece's health problems, and my response is not meant to be insensitive or offensive, and since you are dualistic in your philosophy, I will respond in like.
Since your belief in God is that He/She is good and merciful (as such it seems since both you and your niece have gone through much suffering and survived), and that such belief is that God has created all things (God is all powerful, all knowing after all); then God, therefore, created the illnesses of which both your niece and yourself have suffered. To what ends? To enlighten you? To enlighten you for what?
If a dualistic God created the suffering and one of you had died from it, then what? Would you still think of it as a miracle? Perhaps it was just part of God's plan? What plan?!?
I or she may still die in the near future--she's still in ICU and I haven't received the result of the most recent PET/CT scan; in any case, we know that we will both die eventually. I don't claim a miracle has occurred, and whether either of us lives or dies has no bearing on the goodness of God. I don't need to see God's plan in order to trust Him. "...we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope." Romans 5:3-4DaGip wrote:For every miracle that Cult members believe happens in the world, I will show you a crocodile ripping apart a baby gazelle. Your faith is your crutch, and I do not fault you for it, and neither do I wish you to discontinue your belief in such. I just cannot adopt a belief in a Good God that permits evil and disease and suffering to perforate the world.
I find it interesting that you seem to believe a crocodile ripping apart a baby gazelle shows some defection in nature; from a naturalistic standpoint, that is perfectly normal. If you are saying that is not the way things should be, then you are admitting there is way things should be. Where are you obtaining this standard from? From a theistic standpoint, there is free will and therefore sin from which has sprung pain and suffering; this is to be expected in the world in which we live but will be rectified in the end.
Secondly, I'm curious what you mean about faith being a crutch. Do you mean that Jesus brings comfort and hope in difficult times? If so, then that's more of a reason to believe in Him then to disbelieve! Why turn from something/Someone that works! Or are you intimating the Freudian belief that God is simply a projection of a father figure in our lives that adults still desire after outgrowing their parents? I disagree, but then it cuts both ways, maybe you choose to disbelieve in God because you want to avoid such a father figure! Neither one actually proves or disproves God; it's just a red herring.DaGip wrote:If Good was indeed the intention of a Dualistic God, then God would then not permit such evil to exist; but since evil and suffering do exist, then how can your God be Good? Perhaps God only pretends to be so.
You seem to believe that there is no possible morally sufficient reason for God to allow free will. Do you want Him to end all evil? Then you and I would be the first to go! I'm very thankful that he is willing to allow free will and bring good out of evil so that we may have the chance to choose to follow Him, rather than be robots doing His bidding or be zapped the second we think an evil thought. If God's plan is to create the conditions in which the largest number of people freely choose Him and eternal life through Him, then it would seem very difficult to do so in a world where there was no evil; in my personal life I found it is in the valleys of life that I am pushed closer to Him. On the mountaintops it is very easy to become proud of "my" achievements and forget about Him.betiko wrote:If there is a god, which is yet to prove; what makes you think he gives a shit about you or your ludicrous way to understand him through flawed cults?
Sending His innocent Son to die for the sins of people who were still enemies of Him, allowing imperfect people into the presence of a holy God, is a pretty good indication that He cares. "Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:7-8
warmonger1981 wrote:Is it nothing more than order out of chaos?
warmonger1981 wrote:What defines good as we see it? Like helping an old lady cross the street. Thats goodWhy not rob the old lady? Why is that not good? More cut throat philosophy. Survival of the fittist. Maybe because its easier to work with others.
Just thinking.
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