The Hobbit Mafia [Town win]

[HotShot53]

If dakky is a vengeful towny, then thorth should definitely not be on the lynch, I don't want dakky to shoot him and us be down 2 town. Dakky, if you can't shoot thorth, who do you think is scum to shoot at?

I don't know about dakky intentionally trying to be lynched... getting lynched just so you can take a mostly random shot seems to be a net negative. I will wait to vote dakky per pik's post, although I think that's a bit complicated to have a second voting like that lol

[ZaBeast]

Thinking back on the vote pika proposes, I think it is actually a way better opportunity for scum than regular voting. Since it is not a vote to lynch someone, but merely a vote to have a chance to get them killed (provided we believe dakky will kill someone that has been voting for him), I feel like scum could be voting to get scum in, so if (when) those scums (the ones that had to vote for dakky) get lynched/killed by dakky (the odds of them getting chosen by dakky aren't that high after all), the scums that voted for them could show how towny they are by arguing they voted for a scum to get on the dakky wagon.

fp'ed by dakky. I was voting for you, and I unvoted. I'm just following through with what pika suggested.

Anybody who has left the dakky21 bandwagon post-claim must get back on it, anybody who has not voted for dakky21 today should not join yet

[dakky21]

fp'ed by dakky. I was voting for you, and I unvoted. I'm just following through with what pika suggested.

Anybody who has left the dakky21 bandwagon post-claim must get back on it, anybody who has not voted for dakky21 today should not join yet

I won't quote you again, but you voted me and not unvoted. I believe you wanted to unvote but you did vote.

[ZaBeast]

That being said, we're still at the beginning of the day, and talks of getting dakky lynched this early are misguided. I don't think everyone has had the time to shime in, and I'd rather wait for IcePack replacement before the day ends. I'd also like to hear from the other their top 3 scum picks. So for now, I'll unvote. I'm still set on voting dakky, but will wait some time so we can hear about what the others thinks.

Nope, you just missed my first unvote

[ZaBeast]

Nope, you just missed my first unvote

Fixed. don't know why I said first. That was my only unvote (on you).

[dakky21]

And then you voted me again few posts later, following Pika's orders. Ok, fine, now I'm torn who to drown with me, either you the follower or Pika the master.

[Pikanchion]

If dakky is a vengeful towny, then thorth should definitely not be on the lynch, I don't want dakky to shoot him and us be down 2 town. Dakky, if you can't shoot thorth, who do you think is scum to shoot at?

I don't know about dakky intentionally trying to be lynched... getting lynched just so you can take a mostly random shot seems to be a net negative. I will wait to vote dakky per pik's post, although I think that's a bit complicated to have a second voting like that lol

Thinking back on the vote pika proposes, I think it is actually a way better opportunity for scum than regular voting. Since it is not a vote to lynch someone, but merely a vote to have a chance to get them killed (provided we believe dakky will kill someone that has been voting for him), I feel like scum could be voting to get scum in, so if (when) those scums (the ones that had to vote for dakky) get lynched/killed by dakky (the odds of them getting chosen by dakky aren't that high after all), the scums that voted for them could show how towny they are by arguing they voted for a scum to get on the dakky wagon.

The chance of dakky21 lynching a person with the group of those voting for him is not truly random however; he (if a completely standard Vengeful) chooses which of those lynching him to kill, therefore it should pose no danger to Thorthoth, this actually means we want our comfirmed town to be on the wagon to reduce the number of potential targets for dakky21 to choose from. Additionally while dakky21 can choose any of the people on his wagon, the 2 pushed onto it by the town are obviously thought of as scum by the town and so the chances of one of them being chosen for the kill should be relatively high unless dakky21 is already certain about somebody else on the wagon being scum.

Currently dakky21 is a major liability to town, we can't assume he is telling the truth and leave him living because we have no proof, and then we either end up treating scum as confirmed town for the rest of the game or potentially both put our Cop at risk and waste one of their actions (if scum have a Watcher we can be fairly sure they'll be watching dakky21 now). Then of course if he isn't actually a Vengeful Townie he's got to be scum, so we still want to lynch him.

And then you voted me again few posts later, following Pika's orders. Ok, fine, now I'm torn who to drown with me, either you the follower or Pika the master.

Either you wanted to be lynched to force a situation such as I propose (in which case I—if scum—would have no reason to do so) or you didn't and both this threat and your claim are empty words, pick one. Regardless you should have known claiming Vengeful sealed your fate, so I don't know why people following correct procedure afterwards is gaining your ire.

[Skoffin]

Instead of following along with Pika's theory that Dakky is some sort of mastermind orchestrating his lynching, I'd rather hear from dakky on whether or not Pika was accurate on it. What say you, dakky-boo?

But let's for one brief insane moment pretend this is all exactly what transpired; the idea here seems to be that we should lynch town-dakky to have him shoot a possible scumster with the luck of rainbows and fairy wishes.
Soz but if you think dakky is town then you have no business voting him, and if you think dakky is scum then you should vote him for it. Town should never lynch someone they believe is town; you either think he is town or you don't. Where are your heads at?

I myself am interested in his claim though; as mentioned, Hunter was the traditional word used around here and LoVo has been around here for years; it seems odd that he chose vengeful townie instead of hunter for it.
As for the name part of the claim; I am sticking to my commitment of ignoring any and all name claims and deeming them irrelevant to scumhunting.

[ZaBeast]

For the record, and maybe I wasn't clear enough on my post after pika's, I don't think we should lynch dakky anymore, but, I'd still like to hear what the others are thinking of his (pika's) idea. I just figured where my vote is atm doesn't really matter, since no one is gonna join anyways (or they would be dumb to), and decided to go ahead and vote back in in case the other players decide we should go ahead with pika's idea. I agree it's kind of a dumb reasonning, but it's not making much of a difference either way.

[MudPuppy]

dakky, I'm unclear. If lynched, can you kill anyone in the game... or only someone who voted for you?

[Kamikaze Jawa]

I think either dakky is scum who made a slip and then stuck to it once he was caught to try and protect his scum buddies, or he's telling the truth about being a vengeful townie and wanted to get lynched because he can kill someone he suspects is a townie.

Let's say he's a vengeful townie as he said, then he isn't planning to kill Thor, our only confirmed townie, because it was just part of the set up to get himself lynched. So we have to ask, who is highest on dakky's suspect list that he plans to kill?

As Pika pointed out, there was that post directed at me where he then voted for Thor, so I believe I'm on his list. His last post mentioned Pika and ZaBeast. He also voted for MM on Day 1 (but previously voted for BuJ). I recall there were a few other suspicions he mentioned but I haven't gone back through his posts just yet to list them all.

It seems pretty early to claim vengeful townie, with so many townies who could be shot by mistake but he obviously feels he has enough to go on with whoever is on his list. If we let him live, scum could kill him at night to prevent him taking out one of theirs. If we lynch him today, we need to work out who are his strongest suspects and decide if we think they are town or scum and whether to let him kill them or not.

[Ragian]

I've only played with vengeful townie once I think. In a forum game within TNC. I'm under the impression that it is the hammer that dies. Or am I getting it confused with bomb?

@Dakky, given your claim, what happens if you are lynched?

[madmitch]

as far as I am concerned Pika you are making things way to complicated for a player like me.At this point we seem to have 2 confirmed town Thorth ( innocent child ) and Dakky ( vengeful townie ). So you either believe Dakky claim or not, why not vote for someone else and check him at night then we would all know for sure. I do not like this second vote ideal .it just seems like a waste of time and are you suggesting this ideal to make your self look town Pika ? Does anybody else think this ideal is scummy or am I reading this all wrong?

[Samlen]

If we assume dakky's telling the truth, we're trusting him to make a better decision than the rest of the town when he has no solid information AND still loosing dakky's vote as a townie anyways. Lil fos on pika for either poor judgement or just trying to get a townie lynched. We saw dakky's hipshot in lion king mafia, so it wouldn't be completely farfetched to assume he'd try to lynch himself off to kill his hunch, but he also knew he was going to die at the end of that day in lion king so idk. He could be scum that made a mistake in going for thor but that seems shaky. As I said in a previous post, I don't think any scum would purposefully go after a claimed town since it's sticking out their neck reeeeally far. He mighta predicted this to try and 'clear' himself but then he claims vengeful town which is almost asking to be lynched.

As it stands I'm tentatively going to believe his claim

@ragian it's typically bomb that kills hammer. Hunters typically can kill anyone that was voting them. Sometimes it can be anyone in the game. It really depends on the mod. So some clarification from dakky would be great.

[Pikanchion]

I've only played with vengeful townie once I think. In a forum game within TNC. I'm under the impression that it is the hammer that dies. Or am I getting it confused with bomb?

@Dakky, given your claim, what happens if you are lynched?

Some use the terms interchangably, of course, if he is the hammer-killing one (which indeed I would normally call Bomb), that's all the more reason to follow my plan as Bomb's are far more common as a scum-sided version of the role (because a Bomb is very easy to target as a scum player because your teammates know not to hammer, but very difficult to target as town because you can't tell your team without also telling the enemy), so we could potentially get a double scum kill given we're choosing via vote who hammers. This could also explain dakky21's negative reaction to ZaBeast re-voting should ZaBeast be town-sided.

But let's for one brief insane moment pretend this is all exactly what transpired; the idea here seems to be that we should lynch town-dakky to have him shoot a possible scumster with the luck of rainbows and fairy wishes.
Soz but if you think dakky is town then you have no business voting him, and if you think dakky is scum then you should vote him for it. Town should never lynch someone they believe is town; you either think he is town or you don't. Where are your heads at?

And what do we do if we are unsure which of the two options to go for? -By lynching dakky21 we save a Cop who doesn't believe him town an action, while keeping that Cop safer, and if dakky21 really wasn't lying we still get to make a psuedo-lynch using the Vengeful ability. If you wholeheartedly believe dakky21 is a Vengeful Townie, but that we should not lynch him (and that—by extension—he should not wish to be lynched), then please explain how any of the first three or four posts made by him today make sense. His posts since my proposal only serve to make him look scummier than before, because if he's a scum-sided Bomb rather than a Vengeful Townie we have taken control of one of scum's abilities to use potentially against them.

as far as I am concerned Pika you are making things way to complicated for a player like me.At this point we seem to have 2 confirmed town Thorth ( innocent child ) and Dakky ( vengeful townie ). So you either believe Dakky claim or not, why not vote for someone else and check him at night then we would all know for sure. I do not like this second vote ideal .it just seems like a waste of time and are you suggesting this ideal to make your self look town Pika ? Does anybody else think this ideal is scummy or am I reading this all wrong?

We don't have two confirmed town though, we have one, and we have dakky21 who unless we kill today we may as well treat as one, because not doing so is risky for anybody who investigates them. If you believe dakky21's claim you should lynch them because it's the only way their role can still be used now they've claimed, if you don't then you should lynch them for being scum.

[lord voldemort]

Vote Count 2.2


Dakky21 (6): Pikanchion, Thorthoth, FloresDelMal, Kamikaze Jawa, BuJaber, ZaBeast
Minister Masket (1): Ragian
Thorthoth (1): dakky21
Not Voting (8): Samlen, madmitch, MudPuppy, Hotshot53, skoffin, Minister Masket, DirtyDishSoap

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

There is currently no deadline. Deadlines will be posted with a link to world clock. And announced with at least 72 hours notice

I am still hunting for 1 replacement.



if there was a way to make a secret vote, for instance by pming the vote to an outsider who would then post them here once he received them all, but I would guess that's not allowed? (as per the rule about only discussing the game in this thread)

You answered your own question. Any and all talk must be in the public thread.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I don't understand how this is even being considered.

Look, we have Dakky as a vengeful VT, and we're not entirely sure if he picks and kills whoever voted for him or the one that hammers the vote. Both scenarios are absolutely wasted potentienal for later days, and if we lynch him now, we run the risk of losing another townie and God forbid if they flip to be Gandalf, Bilbo, Thorin or some other major character whom I imagine have a lot more power. And then a 3rd townie assuming doc fails to protect or role blocker misses.

If Dakky's role claim is true, that's a lot more power for us in later stages. Assuming it becomes a very tight game where say...There is 4 scum and 5 town, and Dakky is the one that get's lynched, that's a lot of killing potential for Dakky. On another hand, leaving Dakky alive puts him as a target so they don't have to deal with it later in the day, and that's essentially protecting more crucial roles like a cop or doc. Take that same scenario I said earlier, and you basically have a way to kill scum in that same stage whilst also determining who else is scum if played correctly, (but this is also assuming that Dakky doesn't miss and is on the same page as the rest of the town). There's a multitude of ways at looking at this, but I disagree with lynching him today.

[Ragian]

At least there's no reason to insta-lynch him...

[DirtyDishSoap]

To add to this, Dakky should be more specific on how his role operates. Does he kill anyone who voted for him, or does he kill the one that hammers the vote?

[BuJaber]

Pika is right. We definitely have to lynch dakky. So the best option to cover our bases is to force someone we think is scummy to hammer. If they refuse we lynch them instead.

Unless dakky is jester there is no real downside because unlike what some have suggested dakky is NOT cofirmed and we definitely can't waste a cop action. Besides, even if he is jester then good game we go home, because in my opinion unless we have a role cop and it is feasible to investigate town should never avoid lynching because someone MIGHT be a jester. It's a role that is rarely played and one that gives scum way too much power and should never be taken seriously. You always risk lynching a jester because the reward is far greatet than potential loss. (No townie in their right mind would shout jester just to avoid being lynched because it doesn't and shouldn't work and only hurts town).

In conclusion let's vote on who hammers: I don't think we need votes/unvotes just pick your two scummiest from those who aren't on the wagon.
First choice: madmitch
Second: Hotshot


FP'd by DDS/Rag: But your logic assumes dakky is telling the truth. As far as I'm concerned he is way more likely to be scum. The loss of a truthful dakky is a small loss compared to the potential of keeping a scum alive + potentially wasting town power roles on him + potentially make these power roles a target of scum

We don't have to lynch before dakky answers but we will still follow the same strategy regardless of his answer because if
A) he can kill anyone who votes for him, we would give him 2 extra 'scummy' targets to choose from
B) he kills the person who hammers, we give him our top scum pick to kill which is a win
C) he kills anybody, our vote changes nothing but gives us more info on what people are thinking

The pros far far outweigh the cons

[madmitch]

I find it very strange that BuJaber and Pika are i n such a rush to hang Dakky, scum mates maybe ? Well I am not going to hammer than get killed if he is killing the hammer, so if you two think it is scummy to want to stay alive to bad,I don't trust either of you now, just trying to figure which one is scummier than I will place a vote on one of you

[Pikanchion]

If Dakky's role claim is true, that's a lot more power for us in later stages. Assuming it becomes a very tight game where say...There is 4 scum and 5 town, and Dakky is the one that get's lynched, that's a lot of killing potential for Dakky. On another hand, leaving Dakky alive puts him as a target so they don't have to deal with it later in the day, and that's essentially protecting more crucial roles like a cop or doc. Take that same scenario I said earlier, and you basically have a way to kill scum in that same stage whilst also determining who else is scum if played correctly, (but this is also assuming that Dakky doesn't miss and is on the same page as the rest of the town). There's a multitude of ways at looking at this, but I disagree with lynching him today.

That's just not true, in your scenario we've gotten to LyLo and then decide that now's the best time to lynch somebody we think is town, and you say my plan is illogical? Now that dakky21 has claimed, if they are what they claim it's now or never for their role being even remotely effective because you will not be able to get scum to cooperate later unless we're already close to winning, at which point you no longer need their cooperation; the higher the ratio of scum to town the easier it becomes for them to get whoever they want on the list, and right now we have a low scum to town ratio.

[DirtyDishSoap]

FP'd by DDS/Rag: But your logic assumes dakky is telling the truth. As far as I'm concerned he is way more likely to be scum. The loss of a truthful dakky is a small loss compared to the potential of keeping a scum alive + potentially wasting town power roles on him + potentially make these power roles a target of scum

We don't have to lynch before dakky answers but we will still follow the same strategy regardless of his answer because if
A) he can kill anyone who votes for him, we would give him 2 extra 'scummy' targets to choose from
B) he kills the person who hammers, we give him our top scum pick to kill which is a win
C) he kills anybody, our vote changes nothing but gives us more info on what people are thinking

The pros far far outweigh the cons

Yes, I'm assuming it, and I'm playing on Murphy's Law, what can go wrong, will go wrong. Worst case scenario, he's town, he shoots a townie, and we lose a 3rd on the following night. That's pretty bad to start off from.

A) This is assuming that he 1. Listens to someone whom isn't scum. Depending on who's more persuasive, it's a hit or miss.
B) If he kills someone who hammers, then it's almost a sure fire townster that dies. If Hotshot or Mitch outright refuse, what then? Lynch one or the other, and then back to the drawing board with Dakky? And if they end up hammering Dakky anyways, and he kills Mitch/Hotshot, and they flip town, repeat the worst case scenario.
C) That's still three people down depending on whom he hits. Again, I have to reiterate this, this is a worse case scenario, and it's grim.

That's just not true, in your scenario we've gotten to LyLo and then decide that now's the best time to lynch somebody we think is town, and you say my plan is illogical? Now that dakky21 has claimed, if they are what they claim it's now or never for their role being even remotely effective because you will not be able to get scum to cooperate later unless we're already close to winning, at which point you no longer need their cooperation; the higher the ratio of scum to town the easier it becomes for them to get whoever they want on the list, and right now we have a low scum to town ratio.

It's illogical for the reasons stated above. I don't like the worse case scenario. It's risky. If he indeed is trying to get himself lynched, as you have stated, then what reason is there to believe is that he's 100% scum if he is fishing to be lynched? I believe he's better left alive for right now for the later stages. Yes, he revealed, but I think that role itself has more power in a tighter knit game compared to being the first lynchee.

All I'm asking at this point is to seek alternatives, we don't have a deadline as of right now and I believe it'll be more beneficial if we explore other players. I'm more than willing to pursue MM with Bu for a mutual hunch, or Beast or even Ragian for what I believed to be passive role fishing.
If we can't reach an alternative, than I'll be more than happy to throw my vote back onto Dakky and go from there.

[DirtyDishSoap]

ebwop

1. Listens to someone whom isn't scum. Depending on who's more persuasive, it's a hit or miss. 2. Is not a bomb. Until he elaborates on his role more, we have to treat this as either or.

[Pikanchion]

I'm playing on Murphy's Law, what can go wrong, will go wrong. Worst case scenario, he's town, he shoots a townie, and we lose a 3rd on the following night. That's pretty bad to start off from.

A) This is assuming that he 1. Listens to someone whom isn't scum. Depending on who's more persuasive, it's a hit or miss.
B) If he kills someone who hammers, then it's almost a sure fire townster that dies. If Hotshot or Mitch outright refuse, what then? Lynch one or the other, and then back to the drawing board with Dakky? And if they end up hammering Dakky anyways, and he kills Mitch/Hotshot, and they flip town, repeat the worst case scenario.
C) That's still three people down depending on whom he hits. Again, I have to reiterate this, this is a worse case scenario, and it's grim.

Worst case for lynching kills a Vengeful and two random town, worst case for not lynching kills two random town and reveals who our Cop is to scum; we lynch somebody other than dakky21, this person is—for all intents and purposes—the same person dakky21 will choose, but then a Cop investigating dakky21 is discovered by a scum Watcher who's observing them, and then scum still get the same nightkill as in the other case. So is one of these worst case scenarios really significantly worse than the other?

Perhaps worth mentioning here is that the best case for not lynching dakky21 kills some random scum via lynch, while best case for lynching is that dakky21 is a scum-sided bomb, and we try to force some other random scum to make the hammer, lynching them instead when they refuse and getting to do the same thing tomorrow.

That's just not true, in your scenario we've gotten to LyLo and then decide that now's the best time to lynch somebody we think is town, and you say my plan is illogical? Now that dakky21 has claimed, if they are what they claim it's now or never for their role being even remotely effective because you will not be able to get scum to cooperate later unless we're already close to winning, at which point you no longer need their cooperation; the higher the ratio of scum to town the easier it becomes for them to get whoever they want on the list, and right now we have a low scum to town ratio.

It's illogical for the reasons stated above. I don't like the worse case scenario. It's risky. If he indeed is trying to get himself lynched, as you have stated, then what reason is there to believe is that he's 100% scum if he is fishing to be lynched? I believe he's better left alive for right now for the later stages. Yes, he revealed, but I think that role itself has more power in a tighter knit game compared to being the first lynchee.

All I'm asking at this point is to seek alternatives, we don't have a deadline as of right now and I believe it'll be more beneficial if we explore other players. I'm more than willing to pursue MM with Bu for a mutual hunch, or Beast or even Ragian for what I believed to be passive role fishing.
If we can't reach an alternative, than I'll be more than happy to throw my vote back onto Dakky and go from there.

dakky21's role does gain power the later it's used, I'm not disputing that, but who gets to harness that power is dependant largely on the scum/town ratio, if the game is going well we don't need a powerful dakky21 anyway, if the game is going poorly we need to not have one. The worst case for lynching dakky21 only gets worse the fewer players we have, right now the worst case is losing power roles (which could happen anyway if we lynch another), later on the worst case is losing the game immediately at a point where lynching literally anybody else would not do that.

If we go under the assumption that dakky21 is town, what is so bad about finding these alternatives for the lynch and simply passing them over to dakky21 to arbitrate?