The Pope / Biden laying down the law!!!

[ConfederateSS]

--------Biden told Israel, don't go into Rafah...
--------- But this is awesome...The Pope , told Ukraine to surrender... ...The Pope...I know in the past...Popes would say, settle down people...
---------But , to out right...Tell people, give up, surrender Ukraine... ,Even GOD is taking sides in a war... Actually, I would of thought, it would be the one going on in the Middle East... Taking Israel's side...... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

[saxitoxin]

I hate to say anything nice about a Catholic, but the Pope hit it outta the park on this one! He didn't spare the rake and came right out and told the Ukes to raise the white flag and accept the new order of Europe!

I don't know if this is true or not, but I read that the Ukes have already added the Holy Father to their public assassination list, along with the various journalists and commentators who are already on it.

[ConfederateSS]

----- Neither does Hillary... According to her , Catholics are Mid Evil Bastards...
------ Speaking of those olden days...The Pope was #1 ...Kings would come from all over...Sit out in the snow...To wait to see the Pope...What the Pope said was law...Biden wants America to live in The Great Depression days...Pope Francis is putting the Church back on top...Like in Mid Evil Europe...Holy Roman Empire...I always wanted to be a Knight...Now Catholics can once again be one... ... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

[saxitoxin]

Popery is anti-American. Endicott warned us in 1645 when he drove the Catholics out of Massachusetts (only for them to come sneaking back in 200 years later).

"Look ye to it, brethren," resumed Endicott, with increasing energy. "If this king and this arch-prelate have their will, we shall briefly behold a cross on the spire of this tabernacle which we have builded, and a high altar within its walls, with wax tapers burning round it at noonday. We shall hear the sacring-bell, and the voices of the Romish priests saying the mass.

Endicott gazed round at the excited countenances of the people, now full of his own spirit, and then turned suddenly to the standard-bearer, who stood close behind him.

"Officer, lower your banner!" said he.

The officer obeyed; and, brandishing his sword, Endicott thrust it through the cloth, and, with his left hand, rent the Red Cross completely out of the banner. He then waved the tattered ensign above his head.

"Sacrilegious wretch!" cried the high-churchman in the pillory, unable longer to restrain himself; "thou hast rejected the symbol of our holy religion!"

"Treason, treason!" roared the royalist in the stocks. "He hath defaced the King's banner!"

"Before God and man, I will avouch the deed," answered Endicott. "Beat a flourish, drummer!--shout, soldiers and people!--in honor of the ensign of New England. Neither Pope nor Tyrant hath part in it now!"

https://www.ibiblio.org/eldritch/nh/erc.html

[saxitoxin]

But I digress. Even though the Pope is the arch prelate of Satan, he's not saying anything that saxi hasn't said since Day 1 so I agree with him here.

ROME — Pope Francis said in an interview that Ukraine, facing defeat, should have the courage to negotiate an end to the war with Russia and not be ashamed to sit at the same table to carry out peace talks.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/1 ... r-00146147

[2dimes]

So what do you like so much about Vladimir, that causes you to want hunky Volodymyr to surrender in order for Ukrane to be reabsorbed?

You celebrate Endicott wanting to break free from Charles I's kingdom. That makes it seem as if you like independence.

Why not allow Ukrane to peacefully exist? They didn't start war. They recovered from being part of the former republic that disbanded after it went broke.

Which side would you support if Charles III decided the US should revert back to being part of England? After all England did take their churches away from the pope, so he's out.

Is Vlad going to buy you a Ritter Sport if he gets Ukrane back?

[saxitoxin]

I don't necessarily want Ukraine obliterated, I just want:

(a) All areas of Ukraine that want to be part of Russia be part of Russia (say what you want about the Crimean or Donbasi referendums, they might have been rigged, but no one legitimately can claim the Donbasis or Crimeans want to be part of Ukraine),

(b) Ukraine exist peacefully adjacent to Russia (due to NATO's aggressive stance regarding expansion and Ukraine's tendency to periodically lob artillery shells into the Donbas over the last ten years, unfortunately, a mere statement of peaceful coexistence isn't a sufficient guarantee anymore - the only sufficient guarantee will have to be accompanied by the pastoralization and demilitarization of the rump Ukraine state and the installation of a cooperative government)

[ConfederateSS]

-------You have to look at the BIG PICTURE ...
--------The man with the most Faith in the world...The POPE ...Has no Faith that the Ukraine can win,that says it all...That is to funny...Surrender you Sons of *itches...You can't make this up...Did The Ukraine make a pact with the Devil or something???...Maybe Iran is right, America is Great Satan...Maybe we better check Crooked/Sleepy Joe's head, he might have some 6's on his head...Although that could be the year he was born...
-------- Since the Ukraine is now fighting GOD...How much is this going to cost the American Tax Payer??? ...I can't wait to see the next Bill they come up with in Congress, Ukraine needs more money ... ... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

[jusplay4fun]

Popery is anti-American. Endicott warned us in 1645 when he drove the Catholics out of Massachusetts (only for them to come sneaking back in 200 years later).

"Look ye to it, brethren," resumed Endicott, with increasing energy. "If this king and this arch-prelate have their will, we shall briefly behold a cross on the spire of this tabernacle which we have builded, and a high altar within its walls, with wax tapers burning round it at noonday. We shall hear the sacring-bell, and the voices of the Romish priests saying the mass.


https://www.ibiblio.org/eldritch/nh/erc.html

Endicott? This guy? wonderful human being

John Endecott (also spelled Endicott; before 1600 – 15 March 1664/1665),[1] regarded as one of the Fathers of New England,[2] was the longest-serving governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony, which became the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. He served a total of 16 years, including most of the last 15 years of his life. When not serving as governor, he was involved in other elected and appointed positions from 1628 to 1665 except for the single year of 1634.

Endecott was a zealous and somewhat hotheaded Puritan, with Separatist attitudes toward the Anglican Church. This sometimes put him at odds with Nonconformist views that were dominant among the colony's early leaders, which became apparent when he gave shelter to the vocally Separatist Roger Williams. Endecott also argued that women should dress modestly and that men should keep their hair short, and issued judicial decisions banishing individuals who held religious views that did not accord well with those of the Puritans. He notoriously defaced the English flag because he saw St George's Cross as a symbol of the papacy, and had four Quakers put to death for returning to the colony after their banishment. An expedition he led in 1636 is considered the opening offensive in the Pequot War, which practically destroyed the Pequot tribe as an entity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Endecott

And generally, the Puritans of Massachusetts were very intolerant of ANYONE who was not a Puritan in his/her religious views at this time.

[saxitoxin]

Popery is anti-American. Endicott warned us in 1645 when he drove the Catholics out of Massachusetts (only for them to come sneaking back in 200 years later).

"Look ye to it, brethren," resumed Endicott, with increasing energy. "If this king and this arch-prelate have their will, we shall briefly behold a cross on the spire of this tabernacle which we have builded, and a high altar within its walls, with wax tapers burning round it at noonday. We shall hear the sacring-bell, and the voices of the Romish priests saying the mass.


https://www.ibiblio.org/eldritch/nh/erc.html

Endicott? This guy? wonderful human being

John Endecott (also spelled Endicott; before 1600 – 15 March 1664/1665),[1] regarded as one of the Fathers of New England,[2] was the longest-serving governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony, which became the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. He served a total of 16 years, including most of the last 15 years of his life. When not serving as governor, he was involved in other elected and appointed positions from 1628 to 1665 except for the single year of 1634.

Endecott was a zealous and somewhat hotheaded Puritan, with Separatist attitudes toward the Anglican Church. This sometimes put him at odds with Nonconformist views that were dominant among the colony's early leaders, which became apparent when he gave shelter to the vocally Separatist Roger Williams. Endecott also argued that women should dress modestly and that men should keep their hair short, and issued judicial decisions banishing individuals who held religious views that did not accord well with those of the Puritans. He notoriously defaced the English flag because he saw St George's Cross as a symbol of the papacy, and had four Quakers put to death for returning to the colony after their banishment. An expedition he led in 1636 is considered the opening offensive in the Pequot War, which practically destroyed the Pequot tribe as an entity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Endecott

And generally, the Puritans of Massachusetts were very intolerant of ANYONE who was not a Puritan in his/her religious views at this time.

America was founded as an Anti-Catholic nation. Catholics were banned from holding public office in colonial New Jersey, New York, Virginia, and other places - and there was an outright ban on any practice of Catholicism in Massachusetts and Plymouth. Only one of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence was Catholic. The first book ever banned in England was by a colonial author and one of Endicot's allies - John Eliot - The Christian Commonwealth and Policy Of The Rising Kingdom of Jesus Christ. It calls for the overthrow of the Pope, the Crypto-Pope in Canterbury, and the British monarchy and served as the basis for the entire American concept of independence 125 years later.

Catholicism is antithetical to American ideals and history. You may not like that, but it is how it is.

[bigtoughralf]

Popery is anti-American. Endicott warned us in 1645 when he drove the Catholics out of Massachusetts (only for them to come sneaking back in 200 years later).

"Look ye to it, brethren," resumed Endicott, with increasing energy. "If this king and this arch-prelate have their will, we shall briefly behold a cross on the spire of this tabernacle which we have builded, and a high altar within its walls, with wax tapers burning round it at noonday. We shall hear the sacring-bell, and the voices of the Romish priests saying the mass.


https://www.ibiblio.org/eldritch/nh/erc.html

Endicott? This guy? wonderful human being

John Endecott (also spelled Endicott; before 1600 – 15 March 1664/1665),[1] regarded as one of the Fathers of New England,[2] was the longest-serving governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony, which became the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. He served a total of 16 years, including most of the last 15 years of his life. When not serving as governor, he was involved in other elected and appointed positions from 1628 to 1665 except for the single year of 1634.

Endecott was a zealous and somewhat hotheaded Puritan, with Separatist attitudes toward the Anglican Church. This sometimes put him at odds with Nonconformist views that were dominant among the colony's early leaders, which became apparent when he gave shelter to the vocally Separatist Roger Williams. Endecott also argued that women should dress modestly and that men should keep their hair short, and issued judicial decisions banishing individuals who held religious views that did not accord well with those of the Puritans. He notoriously defaced the English flag because he saw St George's Cross as a symbol of the papacy, and had four Quakers put to death for returning to the colony after their banishment. An expedition he led in 1636 is considered the opening offensive in the Pequot War, which practically destroyed the Pequot tribe as an entity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Endecott

And generally, the Puritans of Massachusetts were very intolerant of ANYONE who was not a Puritan in his/her religious views at this time.

Sounds like the average founding father to me. No wonder it took the US more than 200 years of existing before it would allow black people to get on the same bus as white people.

[jusplay4fun]

Sounds like the average founding father to me. No wonder it took the US more than 200 years of existing before it would allow black people to get on the same bus as white people.

Again, ralph shows his ignorance of History, NOW U.S. History. The USA was founded on religious FREEDOM, as many colonies were founded as a haven for one religious group or another. Maryland was founded as a refuge for Catholics, PA became so for Quakers (Friends of Jesus), Rhode Island was likely one of the more tolerant in regards to religion, and what became Massachusetts, as a refuge for what was called the Puritans (or Pilgrims). This I know without looking up anything. In fact, I just read a book about religious freedom in the USA; I finished it late last week.

One part of the religious freedom was that the dominant group wanted religious freedom for themselves, but not for others. The two main groups to get free FROM were 1) the Church of England and 2) the Catholic Church. The main nation sending settlers to what is now the USA was England, who was mostly Protestant (i.e., NOT Catholic), but even all the English were not all followers of the Church of England.

Besides Rhode Island, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania was also mostly tolerant of many religious denominations. Rhode Island was founded by William Rogers who escaped (and was likely banished from) the religious leaders (Puritans) and oppression in MA.

As far as blacks, there was a movement to abolish slavery before the US Civil War. Slavery was the basis for the economic system of large plantations, which dependent on 2 crops, first tobacco and later cotton. It was very ingrained into much of the southern states, hence they seceded in 1861 after the election of Abraham Lincoln, whose REPUBLICAN Party was founded mostly on abolition of slavery. The U.K. was the first nation to essentially abolish slavery, in the 1800s (especially by 1840; several events get UK there) and the US essentially did the same by 1865. This was the same time as MOST other nations of the world.

It is argued by some that Moslem nations still have slaves today. (I am sure ralph is shocked to read this.) There are pockets of slavery today in MANY nations, despite the bans.

[saxitoxin]

It's "Muslim," not "Moslem," unless you're typing from the year 1887.

This country was founded on a Protestant ethic and - within Protestantism - a Congregationalist ethic. Massachusetts was the first colony and the genesis of the Revolution. It was founded as the world's only Congregationalist theocracy and that is the only historical context in which the revolutionary philosophy can be studied or understood. Not a single member of the Mayflower or Winthrop fleets was a Papist. Popery is fundamentally alien and foreign to America.

Bill said it best in the Gangs of New York:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4_4p15iGlU&t=30s

[saxitoxin]

I keep this illumination by John Adams in a book of inspirational quotes I refer to on occasion.

I have no doubt that the Acta Sanctorum is the most enormous mass of lies, frauds, hypocrisy and imposture that ever was heaped together upon this globe. If it were impartially consulted it would do more to open the eyes of Mankind, than all the philosophers of the 18th Century, who were as great hypocrites as any of the philosophers or theologians of antiquity.

https://founders.archives.gov/documents ... 08-02-0447

But it wasn't just in the North. Here's a good (albeit critical/woke) treatment of Thomas Jefferson's militant opposition to Popery, the Romish cult, and the dangers of allowing Papists to participate in American civic life.

https://www.monticello.org/research-edu ... nti-papist

I recently attended a funeral in a Catholic church and was on my best behavior, though, even as this "priest" spouted the Romish lies of his Jesuit master.

[jusplay4fun]

It's "Muslim," not "Moslem," unless you're typing from the year 1887.

This country was founded on a Protestant ethic and - within Protestantism - a Congregationalist ethic. Massachusetts was the first colony and the genesis of the Revolution. It was founded as the world's only Congregationalist theocracy and that is the only historical context in which the revolutionary philosophy can be studied or understood. Not a single member of the Mayflower or Winthrop fleets was a Papist. Popery is fundamentally alien and foreign to America.

And what are your pronouns, saxi? Okay, Muslim it is, MY BAD.

saxi, you want to focus on Massachusetts, founded in 1620, essentially as the Plymouth Colony (Pilgrims and the Mayflower), by Puritans. saxi forgets about my State (Commonwealth) of Virginia, founded EARLIER in 1607, Jamestown. It seems that saxi wants to ignore key elements of History, like his PAL ralph.

You also ignore MD, PA, and RI (as well as other colonies that help establish the United States of America. Get with it, saxi. Should I even mention the election of JFK in 1960?

[saxitoxin]

Virginia

Okay. Here's what Thomas Jefferson, the founder of the University of Virginia and author of the Virginia constitution, had to say about Popery and the Romish "priests" -

"The clergy ... believe that any portion of power confided to me [as President] will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And they believe rightly: For I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.”

https://founders.archives.gov/documents ... 32-02-0102

"That they [Mexicans] will throw off their European dependence I have no doubt; but in what kind of government their revolution will end I am not so certain. History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."

https://founders.archives.gov/documents ... 07-02-0167

I could go on and on. Jefferson hated the schemes of the Papists and did more to suppress and drive them out even than Endicott 125 years before. His writings were absolute venom to the scourge of Popery. You seem to know very, very little about American history if you think this has ever been a welcoming place to Papists - at least until the 1960s.

[saxitoxin]

Opposition to Popery can unite even Muslims and true Christians.

In 1574 the Ottoman Caliph Murad III wrote the Lutheran Church and praised it for not engaging in Roman idolatry ---

As you, for your part, do not worship idols, you have banished the idols and portraits and "bells" from churches, and declared your faith by stating that God Almighty is one and Holy Jesus is His Prophet and Servant, and now, with heart and soul, are seeking and desirous of the true faith; but the faithless one they call Pope does not recognize his Creator as One, ascribing divinity to Holy Jesus (upon him be peace!), and worshiping idols and pictures which he has made with his own hands, thus casting doubt upon the oneness of God and instigating how many servants to that path of error.

https://crisismagazine.com/opinion/luther-looks-islam

[jusplay4fun]

The OPINIONS of two persons do not eliminate the FACTS of History, as saxi wants some to believe. Jefferson was essentially for religious freedom; and Martin Luther had a dispute about a FEW aspects of Catholicism, NOT ALL of it and not EVEN CLOSE. To quote a Caliph does not add any gravity to the matter.

Those were two and too feeble attempts at refutation, saxi; try again.

My premise is that the USA was founded on religious FREEDOM, and not on ONLY ONE way, no matter what denomination saxi SEEMS to advocate. Now there is NOT a straight line from the founding of ------ (MA or VA, take your pick) to NOW.

Or perhaps saxi is merely anti-Catholic, and/or he does not seem to comprehend Catholism nor Lutheranism.

so, some facts to shed light on the matter:

Martin Luther and the Trinitylocked
Christoph Schwöbel
https://doi.org/10.1093/acrefore/9780199340378.013.326
Published online: 29 March 2017

Summary
Luther’s theology of the Trinity is firmly rooted in the catholic tradition of the church. In scholarly debate, it has therefore not received the same attention as the doctrines usually associated with the distinctive profile of the teaching of the Reformation, like the doctrine of justification by faith alone. The intrinsic connection between Luther’s catholic theology of the Trinity and the distinctive emphases of Reformation theology has consequently often been overlooked. Luther was reasonably well acquainted with the medieval debate and could occasionally, as in the late disputations, directly comment upon them, if the distinctions served to clarify his view of the place of Trinitarian teaching in the church.

The most interesting question with regard to Luther’s doctrine of the Trinity is not which influences can be traced in his Trinitarian thought but how he developed the status of Trinitarian discourse in Christian faith and how he applied it in his treatment of other theological issues.

https://oxfordre.com/religion/display/10.1093/acrefore/9780199340378.001.0001/acrefore-9780199340378-e-326

[saxitoxin]

Or perhaps saxi is merely anti-Catholic

After everything I just wrote and you're only at "perhaps'?

[2dimes]

I don't necessarily want Ukraine obliterated, I just want:

(a) All areas of Ukraine that want to be part of Russia be part of Russia (say what you want about the Crimean or Donbasi referendums, they might have been rigged, but no one legitimately can claim the Donbasis or Crimeans want to be part of Ukraine),

(b) Ukraine exist peacefully adjacent to Russia (due to NATO's aggressive stance regarding expansion and Ukraine's tendency to periodically lob artillery shells into the Donbas over the last ten years, unfortunately, a mere statement of peaceful coexistence isn't a sufficient guarantee anymore - the only sufficient guarantee will have to be accompanied by the pastoralization and demilitarization of the rump Ukraine state and the installation of a cooperative government)

Okay, it's nice to see you lightening up on Ukrane a little.

I agree they should not lob artillery shells into the Donbas.

[ConfederateSS]

It's "Muslim," not "Moslem," unless you're typing from the year 1887.

This country was founded on a Protestant ethic and - within Protestantism - a Congregationalist ethic. Massachusetts was the first colony and the genesis of the Revolution. It was founded as the world's only Congregationalist theocracy and that is the only historical context in which the revolutionary philosophy can be studied or understood. Not a single member of the Mayflower or Winthrop fleets was a Papist. Popery is fundamentally alien and foreign to America.

And what are your pronouns, saxi? Okay, Muslim it is, MY BAD.

saxi, you want to focus on Massachusetts, founded in 1620, essentially as the Plymouth Colony (Pilgrims and the Mayflower), by Puritans. saxi forgets about my State (Commonwealth) of Virginia, founded EARLIER in 1607, Jamestown. It seems that saxi wants to ignore key elements of History, like his PAL ralph.

You also ignore MD, PA, and RI (as well as other colonies that help establish the United States of America. Get with it, saxi. Should I even mention the election of JFK in 1960?

-------- That's why I have to laugh, at the 1619 A.D. project ... Notice they too...Go under Plymouth 1620 A.D....
-----The Indian Confederacy was and still alive today(founded in 1142 A.D.)...Not 1607 A.D....The 1st would be Roanoke 1585 A.D...They disappeared...But still counts...... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... ...
--------1960 A.D...Yes , an Irish Catholic cheating his way into the White House....With the help of the dead in Chicago voting 10 or 20 times each...Like they still do today... ...

[Lonous]

Ukraine’s parliament voted overwhelmingly Thursday to advance legislation seen as effectively banning the Ukrainian Orthodox Church

https://apnews.com/article/ukraine-parl ... 2f86517df4

Tens of thousands of Ukrainian men have fled trying to avoid conscription, fleeing what they account as an unwinnable war.
Ukraine’s military leaders say they need as many as 500,000 more soldiers to relieve exhausted troops and replace the tens of thousands killed and injured on the front line.

https://www.cbc.ca/newsinteractives/fea ... -the-draft

I'm glad to see the Pope adopt the position I have had since the beginning.
There is a nuanced difference between helping Ukraine and hurting Russia.
While they can sometimes overlap, they are in fact two different goals.

Since day 1 the West has been focused on hurting Russia instead of helping Ukraine.
If sanctions are working, keep em up. If diplomacy is working, keep it up.
But stop demanding Ukrainians sacrifice themselves in an unwinnable situation just so you can feel like you've stuck it to Putin.

[jusplay4fun]

Or perhaps saxi is merely anti-Catholic

After everything I just wrote and you're only at "perhaps'?

I was being magnanimous, as you are, saxi The Toxic.

and what happened to your pronouns??

[Dukasaur]

The USA was founded on religious FREEDOM,

A fantasy you like to tell yourselves..

Maryland was founded as a refuge for Catholics,

Yes, Maryland was founded as a refuge for Catholics, by enlightened Englishmen. Long before the Revolution, Maryland was taken over by Protestants who swarmed its borders, used electoral tricks to seize power, and then changed its constitution to ban Catholics from political office and resume the persecution that Catholics had come there to be free of.

Massachusetts, as a refuge for what was called the Puritans (or Pilgrims).

Massachusetts was such an intolerant theocracy that at least two other colonies -- Connecticut and Rhode Island -- had to be founded as refuges for Puritans fleeing from persecution by their own brethren in Massachusetts.

Arguably New Hampshire could fall into that category also, as it was settled under Mass's hegemony by people who didn't really want to be harassed by the Thought Police in Boston.

New York, New Jersey, and Delaware were commercial enterprises by the Dutch and the Swedes that were stolen by the British through raw force.

The Carolinas and Georgia were founded explicitly as places for rich white farmers to exploit slave labour. Virginia was originally settled for different reasons, but fell into the slavery camp early on.

PA became so for Quakers (Friends of Jesus)

This is the only one of the original 13 where your thesis holds more-or-less true. Pennsylvania stands alone as the only one that was fairly true to its stated goals of religious tolerance (although even there, "religious freedom" still only meant "religious freedom for Christians").

One part of the religious freedom was that the dominant group wanted religious freedom for themselves, but not for others.

Truest thing you've said. The so-called "religious freedom" of the original colonies in most cases only meant for their dominant power group, and almost always involved intolerance and persecution for everyone else.