Circus Maximus [Quenched]

[rocksolid]

Update...

There was incongruity between the names around the ring. Rectified.

Changed the legend again so that the text is not just lying there. Also changed the look of the title. Both are now a polished Italian marble from near Naples...



Those images you suggested, Andy - one was just another photograph of the one I'm using, while the other looks like a souvenir-store plastic knick-knack version of the same thing...

I'm not married to the title "Chariot races", but if it's changed, I would like it to be something along Roman lines. I think the name Hippodrome has Greek origins and not Latin, though I could be wrong. I think the best change would be to "Circus Maximus", the most famous chariot racing ground in Rome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circus_Maximus), but I want people choosing to start a game on the map to know that it's a different kind of game from a regular map, and maybe the present title is best for that.

[spiesr]

The legend is now rather hard to read...

[DublinDoogey]

As for the charioteer in the middle - the legend, not the dude in the foreground who will probably disappear - this was my favourite part of the map!

My favorite middle graphic so far is the one with that particular image. There's something about that specific one that makes it look more authentic than the ones that came after it.

[AndyDufresne]

Well lets see...


---I think some experimentation with shadow and letter depth should be looked into to give the text in both areas (name and legend) to give the text readability. Perhaps have you considered engraving the letters? I must say I like the marble idea the best so far, once it's tweaked.'

---Hehe, and I was going to suggest perhaps the greek alphabet for the naming system, but now that I've realized I've been dealing with the wrong ancient culture, that wouldn't be such a valid suggestion.

---I rather like the other possible title you mentioned. When I read it and hear it my mind flashes to all sorts of chariot races to the death--dust flying, wheels spinning off, blood splashed everywhere. With Chariot Races I think more of a day at the race track, or perhaps a game for kids.


--Andy

[reverend_kyle]

Well lets see...


---I rather like the other possible title you mentioned. When I read it and hear it my mind flashes to all sorts of chariot races to the death--dust flying, wheels spinning off, blood splashed everywhere. With Chariot Races I think more of a day at the race track, or perhaps a game for kids.


--Andy

if he is talking about "circus maximus" i agree.


Also i think the center looks better than ever.

[rocksolid]

Some alterations for commentary...is the legend more readable? Is the title readable?

What about the chariot image? Is this a step backward? It looks a little weird to me, even though I love the original charioteer image.

[qeee1]

Yeah, that looks a little wierd to me too.

The best legend was in this image:

[fluffybunnykins]

I like the first one, too (that quee quoted) ^^^
though I quite like the circvs maximvs idea too

[AndyDufresne]

---I have to throw my vote out for more use of the marble, I think that helps make the map. But the lone image of the charioteer is marble looked raggedy, and the one with the black background seemed more like a window. Keep experimenting.

---Also have you thought about experimenting with alterations and variations in the sand color? Not for say 1 ring being a differen't color than the other, but making it feel realistic, tones and shades of dirt you know.


--Andy

[qeee1]

I'd say use the legend I quoted and make the Circus Maximus background black too, that way the legend won't stand out so much...

[Mr. K]

I don't think this is too big of a deal, but it might be helpful if you change the wording of the text. People should be able to guess what you mean by "forward" considering the shape of each piece of the track, but maybe if someone is looking at this for the first time and doesn't really understand the concept, maybe the word "counterclockwise" might be helpful somewhere in there.

Other than that, this seems like a really cool idea. I was skeptical at first but its coming along very nicely. Good job!

[gavin_sidhu]

I know your going for the roman style, but if you are going to have a map with no bonsuses write no bonuses instead of "no bonvses"

[rocksolid]

Hey all,

Consensus seems to be that the readability of the white on black in the legend at the centre works well, and I think it's true that it will look less out of place if the title at the bottom follows suit. So here's two possibilities, both with the title on a field of black marble (this from further north in the Apennines than the white stuff) and one with the legend on black marble and the other with an improved original legend. My main concern with the black marble legend, which I think looks good, is that the black marble might get confused for a lightning storm.





I think one of these two will be the final legend. I experimented with the sand a fair bit and this was ultimately what I was most satisfied with - other ones weren't even really that close. I think K's suggestion on putting counterclockwise in the legend is a good one.

So now, I'm most looking for feedback on the little guys flying around the track.

[barbu1977]

Just caught this and did not read the 5 pages so I don't know it this has been talked about. But what about you give 1 bonus army to the inside lane of Caligula and Honorius?

[AndyDufresne]

---I like the blue ripple effect the best out of it all, most appealing.

---Top charioteers are my favorites.

---Also, some names still seem faded (either in whole or part) Compare the left and right to the bottom and top...

Edit: ---Also the coin looks little odd with the blue ripple, look into making that beautiful.

---Have you considered using more of the blue ripple effect, say instead of the crowd? Just curious.


--Andy

[reverend_kyle]

bleu marble is best.

[spiesr]

The background in the corners hurts my eyes.

[rocksolid]

Fixed the names in the corners so that they're like all the others; tried to fix the coin so it sits better.

Messed a lot with the racers, and left one of them in pieces after a wreck (in some of these races, only one would be left at the end!).



Glad people like the black marble, but I really want to hang on to the crowd, so I don't intend to replace them with marble. If you've seen Ben-Hur, you can't really imagine the race without the roar of the crowd. Vital to the feel I'm looking for.

Sorry for hurting your eyes, spiesr, but this crowd is the one I'm happiest with. Previous pages have some other examples for you to look at. Let me know if any of the others hurt less.

As for the bonus for holding the two inside posts, that is kind of a cool idea as those are by far the most strategic points on the track. But part of the impetus for this map was to give CC a full no-bonus map, so I'd rather keep it pristine.

[gavin_sidhu]

Thats a crowd... Its hard to tell.

[Jota]

I agree with the others about the marble. It looks nice. And it makes the center seem like it's intentionally not a part of the physical plane of the map, rather than unintentionally so, which is a good thing.

I'm not sure that the broken chariot works for me. The idea does, but I couldn't tell what the picture was supposed to be until I read your description of it. Also, is it just me, or does everyone seem to be in the inner lanes, and hardly anyone in the outer ones?

If you wanted to do any more editing on the crowd -- and I'm not saying you necessarily need to -- then you might look into shifting the colors to ones that are more setting-appropriate. I'm guessing that bright blues and yellows were probably less common as clothing colors back then, compared to whites, greys, and browns. Also, most spectators were probably dark-haired and bare-headed.

Oh, and I still can't officially condone Julian :) But I suppose K would actually be worse, which would mean having to jump from I to L. Hrm. (Hey, speaking of which... if "counterclockwise" doesn't have a U, should it really have a K?)

[garionoldwolf]

(Hey, speaking of which... if "counterclockwise" doesn't have a U, should it really have a K?)

I believe that is a U but with the font that he's using it looks like a V, I stumbled across a font that was like that earlier when I was working on a signature.

[resitnecdan]

That letter is definatelly a V
I guess he just wanted to keep the roman spelling kind of

[Haydena]

Just something I think would look better for the bottom right racer would be to move him into the second lane, to spread the racers among the lanes a bit more...

[fluffybunnykins]

could the veins in the centre marble be less distinct, at the mo it looks to me more like a dark pool... they seem more blended under the title???
I think the crowd are a great feature, though there's maybe quite a lot of yellow heads for the mediterranean (now I'm getting really picky!)
I like the a-j thing with the names.
Just one thing eludes me, what is this 'counterclockwise'? Is it some form of corruption of the english language?

[rocksolid]

Another attempt at the crowd...

Centre marble blurred a little. The bottom marble was never blurred. I think the blurring here accomplishes the opposite of what it's supposed to - makes centre marble look more like a pool, rather than less.



Yes, those are Vs. Jota, my sources seem to think that there was a K in the Roman alphabet (a bit surprising to me too) - the letters that they wouldn't recognize were the w, z, u and of course the offending J. So while the K in counterclockwise seems to be ok, the w should actually be vv, but I tried that and I think it would only confuse people; this is also why I won't change K even if you convince me it wasn't a letter - while the v-for-u thing is obviously understood, I think some people will get a little lost with covntercloccvvise. As for Julian, I wanted to avoid jumping to L - even if K is a letter, there were no emperors whose names started with K.

Messed with the wreck a little. I really want to make it work.

Yes, the racers were all in the inside lanes, which is of course where they would try to be in a race. Unfortunately, because of the confusion that was tied to my attempt at staggering the lane lengths to make it tactically more advantageous to take the inner lane on the map, it's hard to mirror this in gameplay without bonuses, which I'd like to avoid. So I've tried to embrace the fiction that racers would actually go to the outside and moved a few of them out. That's also part of why I wanted the wreck in there - to justify pushing some racers outside who need to go around it - kind of like you avoiding an opponent's large army buildup sitting still on the inside track.