Line of Duty Mafia game - DAY 3

[Kingm]

Cod, if Devante I did papertrail on you would it be a yes or no?

King 2.0 please.

And what do you mean yes or no?

[hjelp]

...
Hjelp, you say you fill in for someone if you are there for their death. Why visit strike wolf night 2? Charle and sonic both seem like better options right there for you.
...

I dont have anything special to clear myself yet, I wish I did so Ill try what I can cause Im curious as to what Hjelp noted as their role as it being a backup role needing activation, I have an idea what that could be and i'm willing to push that and see what happens.
...

I visited Charle N1 and strike wolf N2. The visiting is the key to activate the PR.

And Charle claimed after the Letter only Vanilla. So I didn't find any reason to visit Charle again.
Devante was killed N1 so I figured I will visit a player N2 that is rather inactive (few posts) since Devante was rather inactive (few posts). That's the actual reason chosing strike wolf N2, since few posts and wasn't at risk of being mod-killed.

[annieh]

Current Cod- his papertrail role investigates only if a role has limited shots or not. I thought this could be a way to say something without saying too much. We can commit to full role secrecy. It just makes me uneasy.

Hjelp- I should have said Homer night 2, no big difference. Strike wolf makes enough sense as another middle of the road pick and homer was expected to be covered. Thank you.

Sonic- You were mistaken though. Things have been said publicly and I didn't add details for him. You can expect me to be a little defensive of Rags because, throughout the game, I have been in high agreement with his posts. Maybe we'll learn some things later on that change my mind. At this point, if he can fool me that well, then I'm a fool for Ragian and we need to live with that.
Sorry to be harsh about your ai picture when you are already getting flack in the thread left and right. It was the ai aspect I found so disagreeable. I want you to have some fun with it and be able to express your play style. Crazy-ass Dirty Harry.

I thought today was a going to be a week shorter than it is and I'm already grasping at threads.

[SoN!c]

Sonic- You were mistaken though. Things have been said publicly and I didn't add details for him. You can expect me to be a little defensive of Rags because, throughout the game, I have been in high agreement with his posts. Maybe we'll learn some things later on that change my mind. At this point, if he can fool me that well, then I'm a fool for Ragian and we need to live with that.

As you could have read yesterday Ragian wanted 24 hours extra time to think about his:

That's actually a good point. Annoyingly. I hadn't thought about that, I think. I'm hoping it has to do with the chronology of information and me tunnelling rather than incompetence. I'll get back to you tomorrow when I have time for such possibly embarrassing matters. I will say, however, that as town I don't have to "wiggle", and should I be wrong, inconsistent, or a third awkward possibility, it wouldn't be my first time, and it sure as shite won't be my last time.

---

Only briefly about the doc claim: Annie has a protective element in her role, I have a protective element in my role, and I just don't see a doc in this setup (see who's messing with flavour now after all) when you also have your role. Too much protection in my opinion.

This kind of "possibly embarrassing matters" are very exceptional moments when it comes to Ragian - he is brilliant at this game and it's probably the only moment we gonna get all game long. That is why i wanted maximum difficulty on this for him. That is also why i wanted him to answer all those 3 questions and asked you to keep silent until he answered first. If he is scum we want him to slip up; hence the extra third question (as a trap).

Because it's a very big key moment to examine this situation so deep into D3: what is certain is that Rag is not same side aligned as Kong. So whatever side we pick, rags or Kongs: if we are wrong we will lose the game. Rag knows this. And as scum he will want to take one for the scum team stearing town into a mislynch on Kong (as he knows it's pretty much game over for town then).

Ragian is widely regarded as one of the strongest, super consistent players in the game.
He almost never publicly says “I hadn’t thought about that” + “possibly embarrassing matters” + “I’ll get back to you tomorrow.”

This is the only visible hesitation crack ive seen from him as long i remember.

This is also why i engineered the perfect stress-test with 3 loaded questions, public audience, and a direct “you missed the obvious parallel” spotlight.

Scum Ragian, brilliant player as he is, would need to craft a flawless lie overnight not slipping under maximum difficulty.

Because a Town-Ragian could just answer yesterday; a scum-Ragian benefits from the clock.. And a red flag in my head now pops up saying you felt the trap for Ragian coming and you wanted to prevent him from slipping up. Pretty bad.

Ragian publicly admitting “That’s actually a good point. Annoyingly. I hadn’t thought about that, I think,” labeling it “possibly embarrassing matters,” and requesting 24 extra hours is genuinely anomalous.

But you seem to ignore this excaptional moment, jumping in anyway, only shifting the subject asking "Cod help questions"??

This isn’t neutral town synergy anymore. It fits the pattern of a scum pair where one tries to shield the other when the pressure spikes the highest.

[SoN!c]

I asked annieh express to stay silent but annieh immediately posts anyway and defends Ragian: “You can expect me to be a little defensive of Rags because, throughout the game, I have been in high agreement with his posts… if he can fool me that well, then I’m a fool for Ragian and we need to live with that.”

We need to live with that?? Not being fooled is basicaly the game..

And at that very moment you pose rather a lot of questions at anybody ... seems these "questions" are fast fabricated just shift the tension immediatly away from Ragian because if you pose that many questions at once what is your real question again? And by doing so your clearly not interested in whatever Ragian is gonna say.??

Directly blunting the pressure and reframing the narrative with so many questions posed at anybody right after Ragian’s delay request? On such a big moment? — exactly what a scum partner would do to prevent a slip under scrutiny..

The game is sitting on a knife-edge here. And after 804 posts we now "need to live with that"??

[annieh]

I did miss the bit asking me to shush. Ok, I would have held off if I'd seen it.

But I was distracted by some issues with your posts! I believe Ragian will still try to answer you. I didn't add any details or interfere with that between you two.

You said I didn't mention anything publicly about my role and I did. I'm gonna stop there lest I distract too much from (what I see as your fundamentally flawed) line of questioning or say too much.

I'm completely thrown off of where you are coming from and will try to watch it play out without my input. Have at it!

I didn't shift the subject with "cod help questions." I came up with questions for our four agreed top suspects. I am well within my rights to ask questions of whoever I please when I please. This is my detective work. You demanding that we follow your subjects, your pace, and read your long posts after your incredible record of incorrectness is enough without you also being dismissive of my contributions. HARUMPH!

[SoN!c]

Not at all, on the contrary. I just asked that you would not aswer for Ragian. Pretty big moment in the game but alas...

(I would like Annieh to remain silent on this for now and let Ragian answer this first).

[SoN!c]

You said I didn't mention anything publicly about my role and I did. I'm gonna stop there lest I distract too much from (what I see as your fundamentally flawed) line of questioning or say too much.

Yes funny you did read that and not the next line in that same post "(I would like Annieh to remain silent on this for now and let Ragian answer this first)."

I'm completely thrown off of where you are coming from and will try to watch it play out without my input. Have at it!

Nothing left to see anymore, you already answered for Ragian...

[Ragian]

Work? I was out for a Champions League gathering, mate. And now I'm hung over... Not everyone sits on CC all the time, buddy. So, tug it in now. Even if you have the fancy dictionary out. And despite your praise, I hadn't thought about it because, as well you know, I play this game scum-hunting, not relying solely on actions that are public knowledge because I know that they can be misleading. I put forward why I didn't feel like Strike was scum. It's on public record.

So Ragian:
1) Why hadn't you thought about Strike also visiting me on N2 (as a potential mafia roleblocker) when you used that exact same logic to frame Kong?
2) Explain your hybrid PR in detail (tracker/watcher + protective element combined).
3) Specify exactly what Annieh's "protective element" is — since you're basing your "too much protection, no Doc" argument (and thus Kong = mafia) on it. You must know the details if you're using it this hard, right?

1) Because - as mentioned - Strike's play and posts (even if they are too few) don't raise the alarm bells that Kong's do. As mentioned in the post I wrote before heading out, I hadn't thought about the possibility of Strike being a blocker. There's no factual evidence disproving Strike as a mafia roleblocker. Neither is there of Kong, me, Annie, hjelp, King Cod, or DJF as far as I'm aware.
2) As mentioned, I will do so if the cleared town roles want me to. That is not just you, Son!c. However, with Charle largely AWOL, I will do so if Traf deems it necessary that I reveal my N2 action (which I've already stated yielded nothing) as well as my role (though one of our clever players has already outed me, but you've probably missed that). Apparently my suggestion of a mass claim early D3 wasn't such a bad idea after all
3) Annie herself has mentioned that she has a protective element in her role. I didn't come up with that. So, too, have you and I. I just don't think there would be a doc on top of that. Also, I don't think a doc fits the flavour, but that's neither here nor there.

The above, Son!c, is answering questions when asked. Please notice that for any games in the future.

[Ragian]

And if you are to sit there making AI shit up, at least have me down at the pub rooting for my team.

[SoN!c]

You needed 24 hours to come up with a 60 seconds vague answer?

Your reply is nothing but evasive but bit more polished. You bought yourself ~24 hours, and kept your role claim extremely soft/vague.

What power role is out there that combines a tracker with protective? Still zero details on your "hybrid PR" while this is your big case for lynching Kong. The fact he visited me is enough for Kong but Strike saying he visited me raises no questions at all

A scum roleblocker (especially Strike of all people) would be careful when forced to claim. So he claims Watcher and you’re not even slightly alarmed?

Because Traf is our confirmed Tracker, and you gave mechanical proof that **you** are either a Tracker or a Watcher. Even you will admit it's very unlikely we have two town trackers. (It's way more likely to have one Doc than two town trackers.)

So you can't be a Tracker… which means you’re a Watcher.
But then the exact same logic applies when Strike claims Watcher… and suddenly that raises no eyebrows from you?

Come on, Ragian. Stop hiding behind "tunnelling and chronology" and give us the actual mechanics. No more vague "elements."

[SoN!c]

Also Traf is our Tracker.
I am Bodyguard (protective).

So you claim a Tracker + Protector hybrid, that creates a heavy overlap on both investigative (tracker) and protective (bodyguard) town roles. Too much overlap to be believable. Combined with Annieh her protective role it leads also exactly to the "too much protection" argument you are trying to use against Kong.

But in your case it's the exact same logic + "too many trackers" on top.

Can you explain this please?

[Ragian]

2) As mentioned, I will do so if the cleared town roles want me to. That is not just you, Son!c. However, with Charle largely AWOL, I will do so if Traf deems it necessary that I reveal my N2 action (which I've already stated yielded nothing) as well as my role (though one of our clever players has already outed me, but you've probably missed that). Apparently my suggestion of a mass claim early D3 wasn't such a bad idea after all

[Ragian]

As much as you'd like it to be, this game is not about you. It's a team effort to beat scum, so maybe try acting like a team player. I have faith in you.

[SoN!c]

Your hybrid PR is extremely rare. It's too farfetched.

If you are town and you are sure Kong is scum because of it you would convince me by explaining and then we lynch Kong together.

But all you do is buy time and be extremely vague about it.. Also you don't question Strike at all when he was forced to claim and when he said he visited the bodyguard (as watcher) on the same night mafia killed the cop??

And when his "watcher" results are just recycled info..that is not the town Ragian i know.

[SoN!c]

As much as you'd like it to be, this game is not about you. It's a team effort to beat scum, so maybe try acting like a team player. I have faith in you.

This does not adress all those points. Its evasive and just designed to create doubt. Ofcourse this game is not about me. But hiding behind awol town is very convenient isn't it?

[Djfireside]

Answering my quotes real quick and keep it short dealing with a layoff but dont want to keep putting this off. Will finish more tonight

@DJF, how does your role work exactly? I get it that you will disappear when brought to L-1 in order to reveal a player (I presume like Charle did with Son!c), but does that mean that you're lynched

No lynch, I see it in real life as though I get alerted things are bad and I skip town but leave a note to be found the next day. Cant help the same day but I am gone permanently.

Fireside, you said you were curious where hjelp was going night two. Why could it possibly matter to you as Cop Who Has Seen Some Things. Please also give role cop nickname if available.

Hjelp had a triggered role like me so caught my attention to see if I could use my details against theirs. No name as noted.

As far as my own thoughts, I have serious doubts on Strike and Ragian but as noted Strike jsut reiterated the same info as others and the odds just dont fit.